well emu... just out of curiousity...
Who is your top 5 then?
Where DO you put McDavid in a new dynasty with this scoring?
If it's a capped league, who are you taking above him? I'm not trying to strawman an argument here but too often people jump to the conclusion that the proven 'studs' are obviously going to be the top picks. I can not possibly make a case for taking Ovi, Malkin, Crosby or Stamkos at the top of the draft and don't even touch P Kane or Toews!! I could make a case for Tavares and Seguin but my gut tells me to take McDavid on his sweet ELC with immediate production, plenty of $$ to spend elsewhere and the youth factor is the 'oh so sweet' icing on the cake. Any player with the potential to challenge the 100 point mark while still on an ELC is the ULTIMATE asset in a capped league.
Like FHG said in a previous post, winning cap leagues is largely about $/production ratios and a player like McDavid who will probably get less points than Crosby over the next few years but could cost you 5 mil less gives an astute GM in a capped league a huge advantage. Obviously the evaluation has to include factors such as age or Mike Ribero might come out as the #1 pick. Another factor to consider is length of the contract a player is on and this could be where a player like Seguin gets the nod over Tavares given the extra year you have to play with before the massive pay day.
As I've found out before, many will mock this line of thinking because we all know Crosby is the best player in the NHL right?
It's a hypothetical dynasty league though, so strategies may vary but if we are all in agreement that he's a generational talent (or maybe we're not) I can't see drafting Getz, Backstrom....Giroux and Tarasenko you can make an argument...right or wrong...but that puts McD at 8-11 overall.
I can see that as fair.
@SmittysRant
by proven, i was still referring to those still young enough to have several years of elite production left. should have been more clear but i thought it was implied when i only referenced tavares and stamkos.
but in your example, i still think the correct decision would have been to take Datsyuk, Parise and Kovy over Tavares. They all hit 90+ points, under the age of 25 except Datsyuk who i think was just under 30. the latter who had back to back 97 point seasons, and before that back to back 87 point seasons.
i could see an arguement for taking Tavares of Datsyuk because of his age, chances are he would be on the decline. But Parise and Kovy, definitely not. I still think if Parise were on a less defensive team right now he could be hitting ppg numbers. And Kovy, well there is no way to know that he would bolt, no one saw that coming.
My main point is that you can't pass up a <25 year old player that is already capable of going ppg+ over an 18 year who can hit maybe 5-10 points more 3 years down the road.
Assuming this is a non-cap league, would a McDavid owner really say no if someone offered them Tavares or Stamkos? If it were a 26-30 player like getzlaf, then i definitely agree mcdavid is the right choice. at worst i think he's a 70 point guy, so the risk is well worth the reward as getzlaf will only outscore him for the next few years most likely.
Your list does prove a sobering point. Proven does not always equate to longevity. Id also like to clarify at this point in the debate that- i dont disagree that your McDavid play is the right call long term. ill just re-iterate that I HATE giving up in any given year unless Im clearly outclassed- lol! And I feel like a McDavid pick early does that- at ;east in a 1-2 year window. Truth be told I might even be wrong there- lmao!
Anyways for curiosity sake- im gonna go (2.5 per point- goal bias):
Crosby- Still gonna be money
AO- So goddamn underrated- but I will admit he could be declining by thetime mcDavi develops.
Malkin- im still on the bandwagon- might be Kovalchuking it here
Stammer- Not buying this TJ stuff- a one year abberation imho.
Tavs- Already making players better- and crazy deep supporting cast.
I feel like barring a disaster all these guys should be within 10ish points of McD in a 2- maybe even 3 year window.
Like i said I may even tke the Seguins, Girouxs, Perrys of the world because i always want to go for the title- but Im far less confident these picks would hold up over a 3 year window- lol- :P
This makes a lot of sense to me. I think "WHERE HE ENDS UP" will dictate a huge sway in value. Still... I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the 1st round of some 12 team leagues. I think there's the for sure bets (Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Ovie, Giroux, Tavares... and wouldn't at all be surprised to see McDavid go 7-10th (viewed as the next Crosby as soon as his 1st/2nd season).
If I had a late 1st round pick... I'd probably take that gamble (in a snake draft that is)
In a brand new Dynasty I think it's important to have a drafting strategy and stick with it. Some people will go for the win right away in year 1, some will have an eye on futures, and some will just take what they can get. I too would take McDavid 2nd overall (Behind Crosby), and than continue to draft young up and coming superstars and focus on building a powerhouse that can reign for 5+ years. That is my strategy for new leagues.
12 Team H2H (Daily) - Keep 10 + 5(Farm)
4C/3LW/3RW/4D/3G/4Bench/3IR
G A Pts +/- STP GWG SOG/ W Sv% GAA SHO
Centers:
A. Barkov (IR), C. McDavid, J. Carter, Y. Gourde(LW), N. Paul(LW), C. Stephenson
LWs:
F. Forsberg, J. Guentzel, A. Duclair(RW), E. Haula(C), A. Killorn
RWs:
N. Ehlers(LW), V. Tarasenko, F. Gaudreau(C), V. Podkolzin
D:
T. Chabot, C. Makar, M. Dumba, OEL, N. Schmidt
G:
S. Bobrovky, T. Demko, J. Gibson(IR), A. Stolarz(IR)
Farm:
J. Annunen, A. Kaliyev, A. Lundell, F. Lysell, M. Rossi
15 Team Keeper - 30 Player Roster, Full Keeper (Pts=1,W=2,SO=2,OTL=1)
Weekly LineUps (2C,2R,2L,4D,1G)
C-Backstrom,Borgstrom,Schmaltz,Domi,J. Boqvist,Steel,Stepan,Vilardi
RW-Atkinson,Fiala,Caufield,Terry,Radulov,Kailyev
LW-Zucker,Ehlers,Formenton,Jost,Lindblom,Buchnevich
D-Doughty,Hedman,Faulk,Barrie,Josi,K.Miller
G-Fleury,Price,Hart,
Google: "Alexandre Daigle" "generational talent"
0 matches found.
Goals = x3 would definitely factor into my decision. Based on this, I might go...
1. Stamkos (25)
2. Seguin (23)
3. Tavares (24)
4. Crosby (27)
5. McDavid (18)
I don't have Ovie on the list because I think, moving forward, he'll be a 45-50 goals; 80-ish point player. I don't see anymore 95, 100, 105 years for him to be honest. I think Stamkos and Seguin can (and will) break 90 soon with a BOAT LOAD of goals.
As for McDavid, I believe he will be an elite player, and would LOVE to have him, but I'm not willing to bail on 4 PROVEN elite, world-class players for an 18 year old - not when they're all on the board for the taking. I mean, how great could McDavid realistically be? Say he ends up on Buffalo or Carolina - do people honestly see him scoring 95-100 points within the next 2-3 years? I really don't. I see something like 72, 84, 88. Then, by year 4, I see something like 96... and that's IF Buffalo has players in position to compliment him.
I still think I'm showing a ton of faith in the kid by listing him #5 in a scratch Dynasty format. Let's just say he ends up "Tavares", "Kane" or "Giroux" though - JT91 has been in the NHL for SIX years and has yet to bust 81 points. Are you willing to wait 3, 4, 5, 6 years for a 90-100 point kid when there are guys that could give you 85-95 (Seguin, Stamkos, Tavares) or 90-110 (Crosby) today?
8-GM / WK-H2H
Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10
Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
Captain: Matthews
(F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
(D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun, Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
(G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka
I wonder if in 2004 this thread was posted on Crosby if the answers would have been:
1) Kovalchuck
2) St Louis
3) Heatley
4) Thornton
5) Crosby
6) Ovechkin
I'm just spitballing with the above list but I feel that many are underestimating the incredible level of consensus calling out McDavid's awesomeness. I do not see the hype of Tavares, Kane or Giroux as being on par with what scouts are saying about McDavid. Tavares was the closest but it wasn't on par with this.
I can understand the precautionary approach and that's a valid strategy but this thread could look funny in a few years.......or I could be completely wrong.
He's going to be every bit the star the scouts and hype are predicting. i wouldn't think twice to take him in the 1st round of a 12 team keeper. im probably taking
Crosby
Malkin
Tavares
Giroux
Stamkos / McDavid.
Although depending on the team he lands on which I think could help,or hinder the speed at which his dominance "arrives"... I'd actually consider takin him just after Tavares.
But I'm a gambler.
In a capleague i am totally with Pengwin there and draft him 2nd overall without any hesitation. But i am the gamble for youth type in cap leagues as well. So far it has always panned out for me.
Commish of UNFFHL, dangered species being the sole Panthers fan on Dobber.