trade : pietrangelo and vrbata vs wingel and vatanen

[laurentb1508]

we are counting G,A,Plus/minus,PIM,SOG,HIT,BLK

and i have wingel and vatanen should i do the trade??

[Sulla]

On it like white on rice

[SeaDawg]

hmmm...I want to say yes because Pietrangelo is a star, but in a one-year league, I think I might prefer Vatanen simply because this appears to be an off year for Pietrangelo and Vatanen has been incredibly good so far this season.

Then you have to consider Wingels vs Vrbata. Wingels "may" not have the offensive potential that Vrbata has, but you wouldn't know it given his hot start. And when you consider the other stats used (especially SOG and HITs), Wingels is the clear winner.

So, although I want to say yes, I wouldn't make that deal if it was offered to me.

[laurentb1508]

Seadawg what about switching up wingel for ehrhoff and picking up hamhuis or rielly on the waivers...?

[horrorfan]

Welcome to the forums.

I'm not saying the ratio will continue but Vatanen has 10 PPP and 2 ESP, and there is no PPP in this league. Not sure about others but I may be concerned if the PP dries up a bit will he pick it up on ES? Pietrangelo has started slowly but even without having the prime PP minutes (I think Shattenkirk has those), I trust his track record and ability to score on ES.

I trust Vrbata more offensively than Wingels, who has slowed down significantly since his hot start.

Sure you lose some peripherals but in a vacuum (we don't know your situation, context, type of league, categories, roster, starting positions etc), I tend to choose the more offensive players (whom I trust more with a longer period of proven production).

Unless providing context/info significantly changes things, I'd probably take it. It also appears the guy is buying high(er) and selling low on Pietrangelo's start and Vrbata being injured.

I suggest you provide all that above info to ensure we have a complete picture.

[laurentb1508]

my team is:
Jamie Benn, Cammalleri, Duchene , J.Riemsdyk, kucherov,wingels,stepan,Kesler,Perry
ehrhoff,vatanen,E.Johnson, Letang , Stralman

Like you can see i already have alot of point running with my fowards and wingel brings the physical aspect with his 65 hit already
And the league is an head to head with all the stats ive list in the thread

[keytolife]

What i tend to do in one year leagues is ignore whatever has been done this year and calculate every day like it is a new season. From that point of view i trust Vrbata and Pietrangelo quite a bit more than Vatanen and Wingles. Both have more proven track recors. While i love Vatanen Piet has been elite those last years.

But to fully decide on this case, one would need the full details.

[laurentb1508]

@keytolife... what kind of details?

[SeaDawg]

Seadawg what about switching up wingel for ehrhoff and picking up hamhuis or rielly on the waivers...?

sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here...

[SeaDawg]

What i tend to do in one year leagues is ignore whatever has been done this year and calculate every day like it is a new season. From that point of view i trust Vrbata and Pietrangelo quite a bit more than Vatanen and Wingles. Both have more proven track recors. While i love Vatanen Piet has been elite those last years.

But to fully decide on this case, one would need the full details.

I tend to do the opposite in one-year leagues. In a one-year league, it is entirely possible that Vatanen out-produces Pietrangelo. Every player, even stars, have down years. In a full keeper, I definitely go with Pietrangelo because of past performances and potential.

I just find that in most one-year leagues, it isn't necessarily the team that has the best players that wins. Often, it is the team that has numerous "surprise" players. This year, teams that have Tyler Johnson, Brock Nelson, Toffoli, Vatanen, Wingels, Lehtera, Tarasenko, Voracek, Forsberg, Brodie, etc. are doing quite well. I know not all of them will keep it up, but it really is such a hit and miss when it comes to one-year leagues and you can't always go with the "best player" scenario.

[keytolife]

I tend to do the opposite in one-year leagues. In a one-year league, it is entirely possible that Vatanen out-produces Pietrangelo. Every player, even stars, have down years. In a full keeper, I definitely go with Pietrangelo because of past performances and potential.

I just find that in most one-year leagues, it isn't necessarily the team that has the best players that wins. Often, it is the team that has numerous "surprise" players. This year, teams that have Tyler Johnson, Brock Nelson, Toffoli, Vatanen, Wingels, Lehtera, Tarasenko, Voracek, Forsberg, Brodie, etc. are doing quite well. I know not all of them will keep it up, but it really is such a hit and miss when it comes to one-year leagues and you can't always go with the "best player" scenario.

You are right with those teams doing good. Most of the time i have done even better if i converted those suprise players after their streaks to safer producers. RIght now it has only been 20% of the season, with a lot of teams having a diffrent amount of games done. Things will even out come december and those surpise players will come back closer to normal, the same goes for the slumping players.

[horrorfan]

my team is:
Jamie Benn, Cammalleri, Duchene , J.Riemsdyk, kucherov,wingels,stepan,Kesler,Perry
ehrhoff,vatanen,E.Johnson, Letang , Stralman

Like you can see i already have alot of point running with my fowards and wingel brings the physical aspect with his 65 hit already
And the league is an head to head with all the stats ive list in the thread

Who are your goalies and how many goalie categories? What are your positions (Forwards only or specific positions?) and how many starting positions? Perhaps you could list your team by position and starters?

How are you doing so far in your matchups? Do you have any particular strengths/weaknesses (for example, are you winning/losing specific categories by a lot?)

The reason I ask is that hits is one category of ?? (depending on goalie categories), so that could affect how much value it has on your total weekly matchup.

It's hard to evaluate a deal without the full picture, especially one when you are comparing historically more proven vs players who are less proven but producing in different ways.

[keytolife]

@keytolife... what kind of details?

Didn´t see your team posted before. WIth the team in mind and a lot of safe producers in there i would do that trade personally.

[laurentb1508]

@Seadawg what i am trying to say is in the trade should i try to put ehrhoff and vatanen for pietrangelo and vrbata or keep it this way

[SeaDawg]

You are right with those teams doing good. Most of the time i have done even better if i converted those suprise players after their streaks to safer producers. RIght now it has only been 20% of the season, with a lot of teams having a diffrent amount of games done. Things will even out come december and those surpise players will come back closer to normal, the same goes for the slumping players.

True, but the key is to determine which surprising players are for real and which ones are likely to slump. We have already seen players like Toffoli and Wingels (two examples) slow down a bit of late. Vatanen hasn't slowed down, so I still like him to have a great season. I'm pretty confident in saying that in a one-year league, I like Vatanen here. That said, it is just my opinion.

I really feel it comes down to Wingels vs Vrbata. Even with the slow down that Wingels has experienced lately, I still like his multi-cat value too much to give him up for the one-dimensional Vrbata. I'd also argue that Vrbata and the entire Canucks team has been playing above their heads, so I see a bit of a correction there also.

One thing about corrections, however, is that it normally happens with point totals only. Even with fewer points for Wingels of late, he is still shooting, hitting, blocking shots, and getting some PIMs. I don't expect that to change.