Mods removing posts

[mister_mcgoo]

Agreed. It's abysmal and the thing is that it has a VERY simple solution.

Communication.

If you mods, and I know you're reading this because this is a hot thread, if you mods just communicate with us about what gets deleted and why, clearing up questions and whatnot, then that IS GOOD COMMUNICATION! Sweeping things under the rug, such as mcgoo's critical posts that were in no way offensive, just questioning, does NOT make anything better. Out of sight, out of mind is not how a forum works.

It's extremely frustrating when you guys just put a lid on something, delete a bunch of posts and in some cases lock a thread when the discussion CLEARLY isn't over about whatever. That breeds frustration and discontent. There needs to be some kind of valve. If anything, start a thread where anything goes, where there can be a dialogue between mods and users.

I know I've written posts like this before and it's pretty ridiculous that I have to write it again, because it was years ago that I ran a forum and you're STILL making rookie mistakes. You're still making it seem like you mods aren't communicating with each other properly. Running a forum isn't rocket science...

Here's the funniest part (for me at least)...I've gotten to the point where I just expect a good portion of my posts to vanish without a trace, so much so that I've taken to composing anything of value more than a sentence or two offline in a text editor so that when it's deleted I can repost it ...and note, these are not posts breaking any of the forum rules I'm talking about (those I get infractions for (sometimes warranted, sometimes not)), these are simply posts expressing an unpopular opinion - or just one that a mod does not share. Funny though it may sound I've had so many posts deleted now that I don't get mad anymore really, I'm desensitized I guess What is upsetting however is how this is spreading and lots of other quality posters are being similarly victimized. Just today I had a long-term dobber member tell me he's walking away from the forums, for awhile at least, because he's frustrated and fed up and it's far from the first such lament I've heard. Something is very wrong when it gets to the point that you're driving away long standing loyal members. Bottom line is that everyone should be allowed to have a voice...even Ev

It's pretty insulting to say he's in the Top 3 in terms of offense.

It wasn't intended to be, if you want to argue he is the defacto #1 then you'll get no argument from me. The reason I say top 3 is because I feel there are some serious contenders I would not be surprised to see hit 70 pts in the near future...Subban, Hedman, OEL. For one thing it is hard to stay on top every single year...I dislike the Mike Green comparisons for the most part but the one thing that IS on point with them is that he too had two 70+ pt seasons and it is no small feat and not something you should just assume lightly like I find so many do with Karlsson.

[Dakkster]

Here's the funniest part (for me at least)...I've gotten to the point where I just expect a good portion of my posts to vanish without a trace, so much so that I've taken to composing anything of value more than a sentence or two offline in a text editor so that when it's deleted I can repost it ...and note, these are not posts breaking any of the forum rules I'm talking about (those I get infractions for (sometimes warranted, sometimes not)), these are simply posts expressing an unpopular opinion - or just one that a mod does not share. Funny though it may sound I've had so many posts deleted now that I don't get mad anymore really, I'm desensitized I guess What is upsetting however is how this is spreading and lots of other quality posters are being similarly victimized. Just today I had a long-term dobber member tell me he's walking away from the forums, for awhile at least, because he's frustrated and fed up and it's far from the first such lament I've heard. Something is very wrong when it gets to the point that you're driving away long standing loyal members. Bottom line is that everyone should be allowed to have a voice...even Ev

I would like some clarity on this from the mod crew, since it's relatively serious stuff (on the hockey forum scale of things). Are you seriously removing ticky-tacky posts like that? If it's someone doing it on the down low and the proper mods don't know about it, that's just pathetic. Where's the oversight? Dobber used to be so damn afraid of losing customers that he wouldn't let me tempban some of the worst trolls back in the day. Now he's letting veteran posters/customers slip because of some mod's personal vendetta? Really?

I trust mcgoo on this and it needs to get out in the open. Something's rotten here.

Or you'll just lock the thread and say "move along, nothing to see here", like usual, which would just be proving our points.

[mister_mcgoo]

hahahaha, we've been re-assigned!

they did this one to me last time too, classic divide and conquer tactic, they silo you off from the main thread to limit visibility and remove all context from your posts...these posts now just exist in a vacuum, no one who missed the initial thread and subsequent deletions will have ANY clue what has happened here.

[Dobber]

Guys, start new threads when you want to complain about posts getting deleted. Hijacking a hockey thread to protest about your important words that you typed (but will forget about in 20 minutes) being deleted just sidetracks the post. People want to discuss hockey when they come here. I've been watching the thread all day, as well as investigating why the system banned Dutch after two infractions when it should have been three before the auto-ban. (I've contacted vBulletin support earlier, to help figure this out, FYI)

Again, all I see is a post that insults someone getting deleted. And then the ensuing deleted posts complain about the post that was deleted.

It's simple really:
1. Don't insult another member
2. If a post is deleted for insulting a member, and you feel that it didn't cross any line - talk about it in a new thread. Because if I want to read a thread about Erik Karlsson, I want to open the thread and read Erik Karlsson stuff. Not 50 posts about how the mods are too heavy handed or made a bad decision. Erik Karlsson. So if you go off topic in the same thread, the volunteer team here will try to keep it on track.
Just start a new thread and ask the mod, without insulting them, why a post was deleted. Or even better - just assume that the person insulted another member and take our side in this. We don't want insults here.


One last thing to consider. That post that you wrote that was deleted two months ago - do you remember it and care about it? Didn't think so. These are small potatoes. Life is too short. If a mod made a mistake, it's your opinion. You don't see the complaints we get. You get five people siding with you and your inbox is full from all the people agreeing with you? Yeah, that's about 10% of what I get for each one of these. Sorry - 5%. I'll side with the legions of people who just want to talk hockey, but at times get too intimidated here.

[Dobber]

hahahaha, we've been re-assigned!

they did this one to me last time too, classic divide and conquer tactic, they silo you off from the main thread to limit visibility and remove all context from your posts...these posts now just exist in a vacuum, no one who missed the initial thread and subsequent deletions will have ANY clue what has happened here.

Yeah, classic divide and conquer. Well said. Hahahaha

Hmmm, let's put this back in a thread that talks about Erik Karlsson. I take it you're not in charge of filing things at your work - I'd find a file on apples in the section on caves.

[forumname]

If it's a matter of staying on topic, then waaaayyyy more posts should be deleted. If it's a matter of staying hockey-related, then waaaayyyy more posts should be deleted. If it's a matter of insults, waaayyyy more posts should be deleted. Obviously those aren't the real reasons...

I see it as a 3-part issue:

1 - Dobber, understandably, doesn't want newcomers popping into a Karlsson thread and reading about how shitty dobber mods are. I don't think post deleting is in any way an intelligent solution to this, as it only feeds the fire... Censoring your unsatisfied customers only makes them more unsatisfied. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

2- The squeaky wheels. People complain, and their complaints get listened to. I assume it is usually the same people complaining, and the same people getting complaints against them. I think giving in to every complaint is also only going to cause more problems, and I think the 'report post' button should just be removed altogether. The squeaky wheels can still complain, but don't make it so easy.

3 - Favouritism amongst the mods. It's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.

Dobber you talk about letting things go, saying these are silly things to be soon forgotten. You're probably right, but if that's the case then why can't they stay? Wouldn't it be easier and more consistent to let more stuff go? There is nothing more frustrating than being censored in a forum. Look up the definition of forum.

[mister_mcgoo]

Guys, start new threads when you want to complain about posts getting deleted. Hijacking a hockey thread to protest about your important words that you typed (but will forget about in 20 minutes) being deleted just sidetracks the post. People want to discuss hockey when they come here. I've been watching the thread all day, as well as investigating why the system banned Dutch after two infractions when it should have been three before the auto-ban. (I've contacted vBulletin support earlier, to help figure this out, FYI)

So pray tell what are your thoughts on hijacking a thread by silently deleting all posts that you don't agree with, especially when those posts are ON TOPIC?

Again, all I see is a post that insults someone getting deleted. And then the ensuing deleted posts complain about the post that was deleted.

It's simple really:
1. Don't insult another member

If that's all it were then we'd have no issue. That is NOT the pattern I'm seeing, and it's not the pattern that others are seeing either. If you want to let your precious mods blow smoke up your ass all day and tell you how awesome and fair they are then great, but spare us the lies OK? We're on these boards 24-7, we see exactly what gets posted and exactly what gets deleted. We see the voices that aren't allowed to speak and we see why that is. Like it or not you have a community that has been built here, if you're going to let that be shit on then I don't know what to tell you.

The part you're blindly ignoring at this point Dobber is that this isn't just old mcgoo anymore, I'm sure you could care less if I stayed or not and I'm sure there is a nice long list of folks who'd be in the same boat. But what happens when your other senior posters start dropping off too? The well-respected senior members too? These are the folks that buy guide every damn year since you started, these are the folks who tell their friends (who aren't in their pool at least) to buy your guide every year, these are the folks who've allowed you to grow and build your site from scratch, and now you wanna piss on that because you can't control your moderators and separate the good ones from the bad? Really?

One last thing to consider. That post that you wrote that was deleted two months ago - do you remember it and care about it? Didn't think so. These are small potatoes. Life is too short.

So if it truly doesn't matter what we write, then why all the deletions? If it's small potatoes and not breaking any of your forum rules then why is it so critical for your mods to delete it?

[Dobber]

So pray tell what are your thoughts on hijacking a thread by silently deleting all posts that you don't agree with, especially when those posts are ON TOPIC?

I suspect that the posts you refer to, if memory serves, were on topic for one paragraph, and then the next paragraph went off topic with either an insult to a member, or complained about a mod. Like (I simplify to make the point): "Karlsson is great. Also, why did the heavy-handed mod delete that post? This forum is getting to be like HFB"

It's a gray area that some mods would leave, some would delete. I pick my battles, so I wouldn't get upset with a mod for deleting when it was an iffy post. Since editing the post is not an option.

[forumname]

I suspect that the posts you refer to, if memory serves, were on topic for one paragraph, and then the next paragraph went off topic with either an insult to a member, or complained about a mod. Like (I simplify to make the point): "Karlsson is great. Also, why did the heavy-handed mod delete that post? This forum is getting to be like HFB"

It's a gray area that some mods would leave, some would delete. I pick my battles, so I wouldn't get upset with a mod for deleting when it was an iffy post. Since editing the post is not an option.

So it's really a matter of us not being allowed to question authority... Don't question the mods or your post will be deleted. Doesn't that sound wrong to you?

[Dobber]

The squeaky wheels. People complain, and their complaints get listened to. I assume it is usually the same people complaining, and the same people getting complaints against them. I think giving in to every complaint is also only going to cause more problems, and I think the 'report post' button should just be removed altogether. The squeaky wheels can still complain, but don't make it so easy.

Yes, usually the same. But trust me - newcomers get taken very seriously. In business, one complaint from a new person equates to 10 people.

Wouldn't it be easier and more consistent to let more stuff go? There is nothing more frustrating than being censored in a forum. Look up the definition of forum.

Okay, fair enough. Good point. I will ask the mods to delete less. But stop holding back on infractions. All deletions will only occur because of an infraction.

[mister_mcgoo]

I suspect that the posts you refer to, if memory serves, were on topic for one paragraph, and then the next paragraph went off topic with either an insult to a member, or complained about a mod. Like (I simplify to make the point): "Karlsson is great. Also, why did the heavy-handed mod delete that post? This forum is getting to be like HFB"

It's a gray area that some mods would leave, some would delete. I pick my battles, so I wouldn't get upset with a mod for deleting when it was an iffy post. Since editing the post is not an option.

Well that says it all...allow me to summarize for you:

[Loch]

So it's really a matter of us not being allowed to question authority... Don't question the mods or your post will be deleted. Doesn't that sound wrong to you?

Wrong as in incorrect?

Dobber never said you can't ask a question, he just said he would like it done in a certain way.

As an aside, are we seriously arguing for the freedom to be offensive to each other? That is pretty much the main reason why posts are deleted (the only reason actually... other than flagrantly inappropriate subject matter).
I dunno, I've never felt that being able to insult someone online was that important to me.

fyi I send a note anytime I delete a post with an explanation. I don't know if that is doctrine or not.

[Whalerfan]

I feel terrible that this mess was started cause I questioned why the Mods have modded the Karlsson thread..

Sorry guys....

signed
The new guy....

[doulos]

I would suggest people just stop posting in the forums for a few weeks. It's going to be my tactic right now. I'm not enjoying this place right now, and hopefully a couple weeks away will fix that.

The moderation has certainly felt a little bit more random, but I'm open to admitting it might just be perception on my end.

This is a hockey message board that is being ruined (for me, and I can only speak for me) by Big Ev. He just is the type of personality who has the ability and skill to troll in such a way that he doesn't get infractions for it, but is doing it nonetheless. It's come to the point where I'd just rather not check through the forums and see him pushing those same buttons in the same way over and over. It's my issue, and so I am responsible for my own actions. A break is going to be my tactic, and maybe it's a good one for other people as well. I can still read the Ramblings, and if I absoutely have to, get some advice from the forums for specific questions. Aside from that, I've lost a great deal of interest in feeling like I need to defend the forum from a guy who has the sole purpose of ruining it for other people (seriously, what a waste of time on my part -it's moronic as to why I even thought that should have been my job). I have hockey pools to win and I'm off to the best start in years - less time at Dobberhockey forums and more time there could be just what the doctor ordered.

In a few weeks if things are still the same then I'll extend the break. I took some time off for a while a couple years ago and it was a good thing.

[MXHockey]

So is this thread about Karlsson or Moderation?