So There Was A Lockout In 04-05...Why????

[repenttokyo]

BrianSTC wrote:

sentium wrote:

Thank you. I can\'t stand those uninformed \"WHY DID WE HAVE A LOCKOUT?!?!?!\" comments and I\'ve gotten tired of explaining how cost certainty and all the other stuff works.

Wow you two totally missed the point...

The title of the thread is rhetorical.

I am asking how NHL franchises like Phoenix and Nashville as examples...who struggled to pay 25-30 million on salaries before the lockout..and still lost money...are supposed to now dish out 40+ million??

The Phoenix Coyotes reportedly lost $30 million last year....now there are supposed to pay an extra 7 million in wages...

The way I see it, there is going to be a breaking point with some of these franchises soon...

because the league made 600 million dollars more in profits last year than it did the year before and that money is shared with small market teams. the salary cap is tied to league revenue - it\'s really simple. it\'s not just an arbitrary raising of the limit.

[repenttokyo]

lanky522 wrote:

butch wrote:

I think the canadian dollar is a huge part of the revenue increase

the loonie is pretty much at par with the us greenback and pre-lockout it was around 67 cents .The canadian teams can afford to keep their star players wheras pre lockout they were always cashed in for youth which was difficult for the canadian teams fans to accept

I\'m curious to see how the price of oil effects the fans discretionary income as well as nhl teams budgets (chartered flights etc..cost $$ )

it won\'t affect the team\'s travel too much in my opinion... (it seems to make sense that the league would give teams some sort of travel stipend... I mean think about it... if teams had to pay their own travel, vancouver would have a hell of a lot more to pay each season than say Philidephia).

It will be interesting to see what happens with the coming season though... I wonder if more people will stay home as gas prices continue to rise and the economy continues to sag...

teams do have to pay for their own travel.

[Shao]

Dobber wrote:

I have some thoughts:

1) Thank gawd the Rangers and Leafs have a leash. Hossa and Sundin would already be on the Rangers for $15 million each were it not for the cap.

2) The salary floor is now well above the average salary pre-lockout. That\'s just dumb and is proof that Bettman\'s spiel about saving the small market franchises was a bunch of bull.

3) The cap going up like this should keep the players happy and avoid a lockout in 2011.

All in all, I\'m pretty happy with it.

The situation is good for pretty much all players and most owners.

Teams will fold though. The weak ones are just treading water: atlanta, nashville, carolina, etc..

Although not everything is tied to attendance, because I believe there is some revenue sharing, the floor is pretty damn high and these teams have too many empty seats.

[repenttokyo]

Shao wrote:

Dobber wrote:

I have some thoughts:

1) Thank gawd the Rangers and Leafs have a leash. Hossa and Sundin would already be on the Rangers for $15 million each were it not for the cap.

2) The salary floor is now well above the average salary pre-lockout. That\'s just dumb and is proof that Bettman\'s spiel about saving the small market franchises was a bunch of bull.

3) The cap going up like this should keep the players happy and avoid a lockout in 2011.

All in all, I\'m pretty happy with it.

The situation is good for pretty much all players and most owners.

Teams will fold though. The weak ones are just treading water: atlanta, nashville, carolina, etc..

Although not everything is tied to attendance, because I believe there is some revenue sharing, the floor is pretty damn high and these teams have too many empty seats.

how exactly is carolina a weak team that is treading water? their owner is loaded and has indicated that he has every intention of supporting the team.

attendance is also good. They were 15th in the league last year in terms of attendance. 15th. That puts them ahead of Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Boston, Washington, New Jersey, Chicago, etc - does that mean those teams are in trouble too?

carolina is NOT in the same category as atlanta!

[lanky522]

repenttokyo wrote:

lanky522 wrote:

butch wrote:

I think the canadian dollar is a huge part of the revenue increase

the loonie is pretty much at par with the us greenback and pre-lockout it was around 67 cents .The canadian teams can afford to keep their star players wheras pre lockout they were always cashed in for youth which was difficult for the canadian teams fans to accept

I\'m curious to see how the price of oil effects the fans discretionary income as well as nhl teams budgets (chartered flights etc..cost $$ )

it won\'t affect the team\'s travel too much in my opinion... (it seems to make sense that the league would give teams some sort of travel stipend... I mean think about it... if teams had to pay their own travel, vancouver would have a hell of a lot more to pay each season than say Philidephia).

It will be interesting to see what happens with the coming season though... I wonder if more people will stay home as gas prices continue to rise and the economy continues to sag...

teams do have to pay for their own travel.

wow that\'s horse shit... I can\'t believe that the western conference teams have to pay travel expenses out of their own pockets when they probably travel hundreds of thousands of miles more every year than the eastern conference teams.

[repenttokyo]

lanky522 wrote:

repenttokyo wrote:

lanky522 wrote:

butch wrote:

I think the canadian dollar is a huge part of the revenue increase

the loonie is pretty much at par with the us greenback and pre-lockout it was around 67 cents .The canadian teams can afford to keep their star players wheras pre lockout they were always cashed in for youth which was difficult for the canadian teams fans to accept

I\'m curious to see how the price of oil effects the fans discretionary income as well as nhl teams budgets (chartered flights etc..cost $$ )

it won\'t affect the team\'s travel too much in my opinion... (it seems to make sense that the league would give teams some sort of travel stipend... I mean think about it... if teams had to pay their own travel, vancouver would have a hell of a lot more to pay each season than say Philidephia).

It will be interesting to see what happens with the coming season though... I wonder if more people will stay home as gas prices continue to rise and the economy continues to sag...

teams do have to pay for their own travel.

wow that\'s horse shit... I can\'t believe that the western conference teams have to pay travel expenses out of their own pockets when they probably travel hundreds of thousands of miles more every year than the eastern conference teams.

it used to be a big issue in the 70\'s, and a lot of teams that operated on shoestring budgets had terrible terrible transportation for their athletes. I am sure the teams can afford it, but it does seem like a big discrepancy. I am not aware of any league compensation for any particular teams, you would think that if they helped out the west coast teams, then they would also have to help out the smaller market teams in the East.

[BrianSTC]

sentium wrote:

Again, Finger has nothing to do with this. Stop bringing him up. Yes, his contract is ridiculous, but his contract can\'t inflate the market in a way that the pre-cap contracts did, because of the cost certainty. 55% ofthe revenue will always (during this CBA at least) go to player salaries. No more, no less. Quit whining about Finger in this context. If you\'re going to whine about it, do it in a context where Toronto\'s stupid management is the focal point.

First off, can you please stop being so arrogant when responding. I am not calling you “uninformed” or claiming that you are “whining” so I would appreciate the level of respect I am granting you.

Anyway, Finger has everything to do with this…

Why?

Now every two-bit defenseman can take his team to arbitration and use Finger’s salary as a starting point. I am all for the Laughs wasting their money, but not at the risk of giving the 6th or 7th defenseman on the Canucks a reason to get a ridiculous salary by taking the team to arbitration.

Now, if Winnipeg can’t afford an NHL team…I can guarantee neither can Quebec City.
Hamilton will never get a team because the Maple Leafs won’t allow it.

I hate having NHL teams located in hockey hotbeds like Nashville or Atlanta, but those cities have corporate support…that smaller Canadian cities do not have. And as for revenue sharing…I am pretty sure that the shared revenue did not cover the Coyotes loses last season…

So what does that leave? Smaller US cities? Can smaller US cities afford a 40 million dollar floor? Can you ice a competitive team by paying the league minimum?

Do teams start folding? Every team that folds will cost the NHLPA twenty-three jobs….less work for 3.5 million a year superstars such as Finger.

Not only was that contract stupid for the Maple Leafs, it is a totally irresponsible contract league-wide.

[repenttokyo]

BrianSTC wrote:

Anyway, Finger has everything to do with this…

Why?

Now every two-bit defenseman can take his team to arbitration and use Finger’s salary as a starting point. I am all for the Laughs wasting their money, but not at the risk of giving the 6th or 7th defenseman on the Canucks a reason to get a ridiculous salary by taking the team to arbitration.

if that were true, then how did Joni Pitkanen get a 3 year contract for the same money, with better overall stats? The sky didn\'t fall when Finger signed that contract.

BrianSTC wrote:

Now, if Winnipeg can’t afford an NHL team…I can guarantee neither can Quebec City.

Quebec City does not have an arena that can support an NHL franchise.

BrianSTC wrote:

I hate having NHL teams located in hockey hotbeds like Nashville or Atlanta, but those cities have corporate support…that smaller Canadian cities do not have. And as for revenue sharing…I am pretty sure that the shared revenue did not cover the Coyotes loses last season…

It\'s not designed to cover their entire losses. It\'s designed to help teams have a fighting chance at staying solvent. If there was no revenue sharing, the Coyotes would have folded completely.

Buffalo claims a huge loss too, and they are far from the sunbelt.[/quote]

[Shao]

Hmm...I always thought Carolina was one of them. Maybe it\'s Florida in the same division.

Although I see the possibility of a bad precedent being set for use in arbitration, the bigger problem is not Finger.

We are not going to see a lot of arbitration cases like we had in the past because the trend is now for RFA and UFA\'s to get locked up in a heartbeat. As can be seen by the last few days, inflation is up on pretty much EVERYBODY.

THAT has to do with all the potential problems you fear.

[BrianSTC]

Repenttokyo,

I think your last two points are pretty much what I am saying except worded differently...

Pitkanen didn\'t take his team to arbitration...

But if he did, and then pointed to Finger stats as justification...how much do you think he would be worth?

Double? He would have a good case to make if you compare stats...

I sure don\'t want Vancouver to have to spend 5 million on Krajecik because of Finger\'s insane contract..

[repenttokyo]

BrianSTC wrote:

Repenttokyo,

I think your last two points are pretty much what I am saying except worded differently...

Pitkanen didn\'t take his team to arbitration...

But if he did, and then pointed to Finger stats as justification...how much do you think he would be worth?

Double? He would have a good case to make if you compare stats...

I sure don\'t want Vancouver to have to spend 5 million on Krajecik because of Finger\'s insane contract..

i understand what you are saying, but I guess I meant to clarify that while he could have done that, he didn\'t - i guess the question is why? did he not think an arbiter would agree with his argument? maybe it takes more than one contract in order to build a solid case in arbitration, i don\'t know for sure.

i agree it was a good deal for the canes. many people expected pitkanen to hold out for something around 5 mil per season.

[BrianSTC]

Maybe Fletcher was back from a night of partying when he offered Finger the contract...

A few beers, a few glasses of wine...then he runs into Finger\'s agent...has a couple of more drinks...and then tells Finger\'s agent...\"Hey, if you get the next round, I\'ll give your client a great contract!\"

When he woke up the next morning, he is like...\"Oh shit! What did I do? Well, I better call a press conference to explain what a great player..er..whats-his-names gonna be!\"

[repenttokyo]

haha, man, fletcher is so old i doubt he needs to blame alcohol for all the stuff he \'forgets\' he did

[Shao]

Don\'t know if you heard Fletcher talk right after.

He felt that Finger was in the right age and type to develop into a 35 point guy who is fiesty.

He thinks that in about 4 years, it\'ll look pretty cheap then, a la Kaberle. Then again, it could also turn ugly a la McCabe

[Dobber]

Well spoken Brian.

I think Finger will be a 30-point No.4 defenseman. But for now, arbitration will use his salary. Maybe Pitkanen could have gone to arbitration (not certain), but I think you only get two per career so maybe he didn\'t want to waste one when the Canes were giving him a good offer.