Top 5 defensemen in real life? Rep for help

[Pengwin7]

Thanks for the great input here, fellas. I am going through and repping where I can, but it will take me a few days to make sure I get everyone. Love the insight.

Rylant

Rylant, just curious - what sides were each of you & your buddy taking on this debate?

[Rylant]

Rylant, just curious - what sides were each of you & your buddy taking on this debate?

This all started a few nights ago when a bunch of friends and I were watching the Rangers game. One of my buddies is a HUGE Rangers fan, but doesn't play a lot of fantasy hockey. At one point in the game, he made a statement suggesting that Henrik Lundqvist is the best goaltender in the world, and if we were starting an NHL team and had the choice of Goalies, that Lundy is the goalie that you should take first. Most of the people at the table agreed with that statement, including me. One guy suggested that he would take Rask, simply because he is 5 years younger than King Henrik, which I could see.

Later, that same person suggested that Ryan McDonagh was the best all-around defensemen in the league, and if you were starting an NHL team and had a choice of D-men, he should be your first choice. That's when I said he was crazy. I said that I agree that McDonagh was a great defensemen, and I would LOVE to have him on the Oilers, and I agreed that he was the best D-men in the game we were watching (Pitt vs NYR), but I didn't think he would hit my top-5 list. He accused me of looking at this from a Fantasy Hockey perspective and not from a real life perspective; I accused him of looking at this as a HUGE Rangers fan, and not an impartial fan. Most of the guys watching the game tentatively agreed with me, but it wasn't as overwhelming as I thought it would be. We started to put together our own lists, and in the end, I agreed that McDonagh would hit my top-10 list, but not my top-5.

My list looked fairly similar to most everyone's list here.

Doughty
Weber
Karlsson
Subban
Suter Would be my top-5.

My top-10 would probably include
Keith
Pietrangelo
Hedman
OEL
McDonagh

The only reason Chara misses my list is because he is significantly north of 30. I told my buddy who started this whole conversation that I was planning on doing this, and he wanted to see the results. I told him that I expected to see McDonagh's name mentioned, but that I didn't think he would hit many of the posters here top-5 list. He was quick to throw in the disclaimer that this is a fantasy hockey site first, and a hockey site second. I told him that I would be sure to suggest that this should be taking the fantasy hockey element out of the equation, but he thought it wouldn't matter :-)

Rylant

[rataylor22]

Neat explanation

Your buddy is definitely looking through Rangers colored glasses. I would say, in the scope of your argument of starting a new team tomorrow, McDonagh would maybe be on the edge of the top 10. He's really good and solid, but you can't act like playing with Girardi (who is also really good) doesn't make him look much better.

For arguments sake with the goalies, I would take Rask and Price both over Lundqvist, and I would definitely consider Quick and Schneider over him as well, for a couple of reasons:
1) Age
2) Play Style - Lundqvist has some of the biggest pads in the league and plays very deep in his net. I also think he is less athletic than the 4 I listed above. If the NHL were ever to actually make a concerted effort to increase scoring through changes to goalies (make the net bigger, reduce pad size by a tangible amount) I think that these changes would affect Lundqvist more than it would affect the four above.

[rataylor22]

For starting an organization tomorrow, when you get to that lower end of the top 10, I think you'd also have to at least consider guys like Trouba, Cam Fowler, Nik Kronwall (though he is getting up there in age too), Giordano, ME Vlasic, and maybe even Seth Jones although he has shown less than the rest of that list.

[fungchen3]

Rylant,

McDonagh is in my Top 12-15 range, personally.

If we're expanding our list and building a team from scratch for the future, I would go with:

1. Weber
2. Doughty
3. Subban
4. Suter
5. Karlsson
--
6. Keith
7. Pietrangelo
8. Ekman-Larsson
9. Hedman
10. Seabrook
11. Jones
12. Trouba
13. McDonagh
14. Fowler
15. Kronwall
etc.

Age and untapped potential certainly plays a part in this decision. I think both Jones and Trouba are can't-miss superstars in the making.

As for goalies, give me Rask, Price, Quick over Lundqvist for sure... at the very least. I think the King is a stud but, yes, he is a tad overrated IMO.

[Atomic Wedgy]

Yes, I agree. The top 5 would be a pretty consistent list across the wider group. Doughty, Weber, Suter, Keith, Subban, Karlsson would be the names you would see the most. After that it would probably get more interesting.

After that list, I would be giving long looks at Kronwall, Pickles, Hjalmarsson and McDonough. If I were to gamble on a young guy, it would be Trouba or S Jones. If I were drafting a top 7-8 defensive corps, it would be unlikely I would choose a young guy though. I would prolly go with guys who I know exactly what I am getting.

[pmkidd]

Yandle doesn't make top 15?

[rataylor22]

Yandle doesn't make top 15?

Nope. Not fantasy defensemen, real life. He's definitely not a top 15 guy. Maybe top 25 or top 30.

[mister_mcgoo]

if there's anybody close to Lidstrom, it's Karlsson. Both generational d-men.

Except that Lidstrom was defensively impeccable...lmao

Karlsson will be fortunate if he ever becomes half as good as Lidstrom. And that's not a slight against Karlsson, he's incredibly talented for sure, but at this point he's got a long way to go.
I never got to see Bobby Orr play (except on old recordings) but after him Lidstrom is one of the greatest to ever play the game, top 5 ever IMO... basically in the same echelon as Ray Bourque, Larry Robinson, Neidermeyer, McInnis, Potvin etc.

As far as the question goes, I dunno how to answer it except from the perepective of 'if a brand new, real-world NHL draft from scratch happened tomorrow, who would you choose). I'd choose:

Weber
Doughty
Subban
Suter
Karlsson

[HockeyProphet]

Comparing Lidstrom and Karlsson because neither play physical is just laughable. You clearly don't understand what playing defense is. Sit down and shhh now please.

You clearly don't understand the different between comparing and distinguishing. Distinguishing is what I would be doing considering the fact that I made a distinction between the two types.

Alternatively, comparing would also be outlandish. Considering the fact that both are offensive, generational, talents from Sweden. Lidstrom, being a player Karlsson has said that he admired and looked to emulate.

What's laughable is to think that Karlsson can't mature and develop as a player, to change into a smarter, more poised, and efficient player that was characteristic of Lidstrom.

[HockeyProphet]

Except that Lidstrom was defensively impeccable...lmao

Karlsson will be fortunate if he ever becomes half as good as Lidstrom. And that's not a slight against Karlsson, he's incredibly talented for sure, but at this point he's got a long way to go.
I never got to see Bobby Orr play (except on old recordings) but after him Lidstrom is one of the greatest to ever play the game, top 5 ever IMO... basically in the same echelon as Ray Bourque, Larry Robinson, Neidermeyer, McInnis, Potvin etc.

As far as the question goes, I dunno how to answer it except from the perepective of 'if a brand new, real-world NHL draft from scratch happened tomorrow, who would you choose). I'd choose:

Weber
Doughty
Subban
Suter
Karlsson

Maybe you have dated yourself a bit, LOL. But I wasn't old enough to remember Lidstrom as young player. Maybe you can shed light on whether he came into the league with all those skills developed or if there was a curve to his defensive play. Also, having the team he did during his career never hurt.

[peatrc]

My list:
1. Weber
2. Doughty
3. Suter
4. Keith
5. Karlsson
On deck:Subban,Pietrangelo

[Rylant]

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread; you have all helped with some interesting debate amongst a group of friends. I think that I have gotten rep to everyone in this thread, perhaps twice to some! There are a lot of people who have posted here, so if I have somehow missed repping you, please PM me, and I will ensure that you get repped.

Thanks again, fellas.

Rylant

[pmorrow]

My guess at the 5 dmen GMs would want to have most:
1. Doughty
2. Weber
3. Suter
4. Keith
5. Pietrangelo, Subban or Karlsson. Maybe Chara if we're talking the immediate future

[fungchen3]

My guess at the 5 dmen GMs would want to have most:
1. Doughty
2. Weber
3. Suter
4. Keith
5. Pietrangelo, Subban or Karlsson. Maybe Chara if we're talking the immediate future

Rock solid.

But, umm, hey, what's with the Harold Ballard avatar?! The most loathed man in hockey history this side of Eagleson and Bettman lol.