Salary Cap, Waivers & Other Rules Discussion

[Anonymous]

But if everyone is drafting these new protegies, then what is the point in having a draft year after year if all of the good players are already gone?

[Rad64]

Noriculous wrote:

I do think the cap is a bit low for the formula used but I also think it is too late to make a change for this year. Any cap talk should be to change it next year.

I don\'t think my next point has been covered, if it has well I\'m sure someone will tell me.

I hope that we all agree that a draft is made to draft new players to the league. Contrary to a majority of pools out there, the free agent wire should be, IMO, to those from players that have already been drafted by one of use at some point. (that is how it works in my other dynasty, anyway) What this means is every player undrafted in this draft won\'t be available next year. Doing otherwise would reduce any draft strategies to zilch.

During the season, it is possible for teams to waive players(in order to fit under the cap) that player then become a free agent.

I\'m not sure if this idea helps you out Comish, but that is how it works in my other pool. It would be crazy, IMO, to have stars available after the draft... 1.they are not even in our league 2. makes no scene regarding strategies.


Doing this enables us to keep the cap system like it is, (for this year at minimum) and it doesn\'t mess up any strategies.
Another rule that I propose is that any \"normal\" change to rules should become in effect the year after it is voted. otherwise, it doesn\'t give the GMs enough time to refocus and replan and to me it is all in fairness. Any \"critical\" change in rules can become in effect immediately but it has to be accepted unanimously.


My 2 cents,

I hope it helps you out Comish,

I have to disagree. The draft allows us to pick up new players, but it also allows us to pick up players dropped each year due to salary cap concerns. It helps add balance.

Teams selecting all the young talented players (cheap) will need to cut loose expensive veterans next season to meet the cap. No different from the current NHL. Not to mention teams dumping(UFA) or buying out expensive contracts.

Weaker teams need to be able to draft these guys dropped from the stronger teams.

If the salaries are derived from the categories the league uses there is no need to increase a cap year to year. Each player is re-valued at the end of the season using the same formula. Some go up, others go down, some stay the same.

I don\'t see an issue here...

Rad

[bctopdawg]

Rad,

I agree with your thoughts on the cap. Those young guys salaries will rise after a big year, forcing you to drop a higher priced vet in order to get under the cap.
The lower finishing teams will then have the chance to improve by picking one up at the draft, and will most likely have more cap space (as their team did not perform as well and thus salaries dropped).

[pensfan]

The Comish wrote:

Thanks for that Chinny! I incorrectly gave the $1200 figure. It is of course $1250.

With the way the draft is shaping up, I can see the $250 extra being a large issue. The way the rules are worded means that as soon I say go in Yahoo, pick ups could start.

Problem is, we could have many many requests for the same players.

One way to deal with it is using the waiver system, but because we have 3 separate Yahoo pools, it will (trust me on this) get ugly with multiple player requests by many different teams in the 3 Yahoo leagues.

I don\'t see this \"rush\" for players changing anytime in the future. I never anticipated this happening.

I am going to propose a change. The cap should be a hard cap of $1250 for 25 players. It also makes for a nice average of $50 per player, meaning more of us can keep our stars as they get more expensive.

Obviously I didn\'t do enough research before setting the cap at $1000. I\'ll take the blame on that one, but I feel like changing the cap now is the right move.

I\'ll send an email out, but you can also comment and reply here. I\'d like everyone to answer, but I think this is best to deal with it now and prevent it from becoming a problem in the future.

I think using the forums for waiver moves is the best approach. I would suspect there won\'t be a big rush for players...when we are in the 29th round drafting player #700 someone will have the caproom and desire to add anyone remotely decent.

I would like to see a waiver system in place year round. If I, in my drunken rage, waive Crosby after a piss-poor performance, is it really fair that he is then available to the first guy to pop online? Especially with us all being in different yahoo leagues, this could be an issue.

I would like the cap to stay at $1000

[Anonymous]

How do you determine waiver priority though? Is it fair to give Crosby to the guy who selected 30th, as that is usually how the waiver priority works out in these cases. Would we work from the middle out? use another random drawing to generate the waiver priority? Or will we do it NHL like, last place teams? I\'m not entirely sure how the NHL\'s system works, admittedly.

[sd1976]

It should go to the team with the lowest seed first as they were put at an extreme disadvantage to be able to get what amounts to the 30th best player to start the pool... At least for the first season. After that then definately NHL style where it basically goes by lowest rank first all the way through to the first place team...

[Rad64]

Regarding waivers, I like the idea of going last place to first as
SD stated.

[Noriculous]

Rad64 wrote:

Noriculous wrote:

I do think the cap is a bit low for the formula used but I also think it is too late to make a change for this year. Any cap talk should be to change it next year.

I don\'t think my next point has been covered, if it has well I\'m sure someone will tell me.

I hope that we all agree that a draft is made to draft new players to the league. Contrary to a majority of pools out there, the free agent wire should be, IMO, to those from players that have already been drafted by one of use at some point. (that is how it works in my other dynasty, anyway) What this means is every player undrafted in this draft won\'t be available next year. Doing otherwise would reduce any draft strategies to zilch.

During the season, it is possible for teams to waive players(in order to fit under the cap) that player then become a free agent.

I\'m not sure if this idea helps you out Comish, but that is how it works in my other pool. It would be crazy, IMO, to have stars available after the draft... 1.they are not even in our league 2. makes no scene regarding strategies.


Doing this enables us to keep the cap system like it is, (for this year at minimum) and it doesn\'t mess up any strategies.
Another rule that I propose is that any \"normal\" change to rules should become in effect the year after it is voted. otherwise, it doesn\'t give the GMs enough time to refocus and replan and to me it is all in fairness. Any \"critical\" change in rules can become in effect immediately but it has to be accepted unanimously.


My 2 cents,

I hope it helps you out Comish,

I have to disagree. The draft allows us to pick up new players, but it also allows us to pick up players dropped each year due to salary cap concerns. It helps add balance.

Teams selecting all the young talented players (cheap) will need to cut loose expensive veterans next season to meet the cap. No different from the current NHL. Not to mention teams dumping(UFA) or buying out expensive contracts.

Weaker teams need to be able to draft these guys dropped from the stronger teams.

If the salaries are derived from the categories the league uses there is no need to increase a cap year to year. Each player is re-valued at the end of the season using the same formula. Some go up, others go down, some stay the same.

I don\'t see an issue here...

Rad

Well what you said is the same thing as me. What I said, in order words, is to be able to pick up a guy during the season if he has been, at some point, picked up by someone in our pool then dropped.
The yearly draft is to open eligibility of the players to our pool. EX: you draft Mario Lemieux, you reaise he is retired during the year and you drop him. Someone else picks him off waivers, etc.


Comish, you can bet anything you like on a pool this deep that Green would have been drafted. He was drafted in my other dynasty a long time ago. An it is \"only\" 400 players deep.

The 10 games rule is another option, sure, but we have 25 players spaces on our roster, the idea is to get backups in there anyways, no?

Yes, this type of rule does create trading. And yes, if you have no players for a position everyone wants to make you pay a big price. But hey, all you have to do is get a semi decent backup and the prices become normal again, its just a question of planing you team.

Anyways, it was just a suggestion, I\'m open to any other suggestion.

[newper114]

Anonymous wrote:

How do you determine waiver priority though? Is it fair to give Crosby to the guy who selected 30th, as that is usually how the waiver priority works out in these cases. Would we work from the middle out? use another random drawing to generate the waiver priority? Or will we do it NHL like, last place teams? I\'m not entirely sure how the NHL\'s system works, admittedly.

for this idea it will get very tricky as we are in different yahoo leagues. not sure if its in the rules. but i would say if a player is dropped he should have a 2 day freeze on getting picked up, this way everyone see he is available. then we should have a forum or somesort to bid for him. he will start say his value on the salary list and people can bid for him. this way it wont persay go to the worst team or the best. it would be unfair to give it to the worst straight out just because either they have been hurt by injuries or poor drafting.

this bid process will make it a bit more interesting. give a bid process for 2 days. and then the highest bid gets the player. i dont know how this will play out or even if it is an issue because i doubt a top ranked guy that we will all fight over will be dropped but you never know.

[Rad64]

I don\'t believe the volume of waiver wire and free agent moves is going to be very high. Remember we are drafting 750 players...who is going to be left?

Teams may have to drop a player or two if they make a trade that puts them over the cap. The extra $250.00 should reduce that eventuality.

This season will be a good test run.

[Noriculous]

Rad64 wrote:

I don\'t believe the volume of waiver wire and free agent moves is going to be very high. Remember we are drafting 750 players...who is going to be left?

Teams may have to drop a player or two if they make a trade that puts them over the cap. The extra $250.00 should reduce that eventuality.

This season will be a good test run.

I won\'t name names but I have a good idea of some candidates already.

The idea is to avoid a push for a few \"select\" guys as soon as the draft is over. after that, I think it shouldn\'t be a problem but exceptions do occur.

[pensfan]

I agree that it is unlikely but it only takes one guy who decides Ovechkin was a fluke last year and drops him to pick up the Leafs 4th string goalie to throw everything out of whack. Having a rule in place to handle this situation is better than making something up on the fly...

I prefer a waiver system based on worst to first. For the start of the season, the pools I am in go 1st to last because the last round of the draft is reverse order (in our case 30-1) so the 1st waivers is just an extension of the draft, but it\'s no big deal either way...random might be the most fair

Regarding claiming players on waivers, we need to have the ability to pick up anyone...should not be limited to only people that were drafted in our pool...how would the 1st waiver claim work? no one is ever going to waive anyone...why would they?

Does Yahoo have every minor leaguer etc in the free agent pool? For the sake of making life easier on the comish I would say anyone in the Yahoo FA pool is fair game. At the worst, I would want the ability to draft anyone after they\'ve played their first game of the season...this is a deep pool, if I need help I shouldn\'t have to wait for a player to reach some randomly determined games played limit (especially a goalie)

WOW, am I the only one that is way off of the original topic?

[Noriculous]

pensfan wrote:

I agree that it is unlikely but it only takes one guy who decides Ovechkin was a fluke last year and drops him to pick up the Leafs 4th string goalie to throw everything out of whack. Having a rule in place to handle this situation is better than making something up on the fly...

I prefer a waiver system based on worst to first. For the start of the season, the pools I am in go 1st to last because the last round of the draft is reverse order (in our case 30-1) so the 1st waivers is just an extension of the draft, but it\'s no big deal either way...random might be the most fair

Regarding claiming players on waivers, we need to have the ability to pick up anyone...should not be limited to only people that were drafted in our pool...how would the 1st waiver claim work? no one is ever going to waive anyone...why would they?

For cap space is something that comes to mind.

The way we do it in my other Dynasty is for guys that have played over 200 games that you send to your farm team need to go trough waivers. (mostly \"forcing\" trades, with a few exceptions) Guy with less then 200 games go to the farm team.

What is the consequence of this? well a guy claimed off waivers needs to be put in your roster ( and you need to put a guy on waivers to make space for him, unless you have a guy that has less then 200 games played.) Next, the poolers make a lot of minor trades. (creating good pool activity) And most important, it gives value to your starting lineup and too young players. ( you can take a chance with some young guys and send them down to the farm with no risk.) However, this means that all roster movements need to be approved by the Commish of the league, which in this case would be The Comish (Unless he gets an assistant commish to do it).


Anyways,

Since we are opening up unclear subjects, I will open another one (I can\'t remember if it was discussed, if it has tell me! ): can we trade future draft picks? 1, 2, 3, or 4 etc. seasons ahead? Future considerations?

[The Comish]

Noriculous, You can only trade the next year\'s draft picks, nothing further because you may not be in the pool in two years! No future considerations or cash deals.

Conditional trades will be allowed approved by The Comish on a case by case basis. You could trade a band-aid boy and the stipulation could be that if player X plays 60 games (or any other number) then that\'s worth a 3rd round pick. If said band-aid boy plays less than a certain number of games, that\'s worth say a 5th round pick. Something like that where the conditions are spelled out in detail.

You would need to keep both of those picks until the condition is met, just in case.

[Noriculous]

The Comish wrote:

Noriculous, You can only trade the next year\'s draft picks, nothing further because you may not be in the pool in two years! No future considerations or cash deals.

Conditional trades will be allowed approved by The Comish on a case by case basis. You could trade a band-aid boy and the stipulation could be that if player X plays 60 games (or any other number) then that\'s worth a 3rd round pick. If said band-aid boy plays less than a certain number of games, that\'s worth say a 5th round pick. Something like that where the conditions are spelled out in detail.

You would need to keep both of those picks until the condition is met, just in case.

What happens if The Comish does not make it? :P