Erik Karlsson+Getzlaf for Crosby

[ross10019]

How ? Crosby > *

Same way Crosby is worth more than two other elite forwards who together outpoint him, Karlsson is worth more than two other elite dman who together outpoint him. That's what you mean by consolidation, and it applies both to fwd and D. There is no better dman to own in fantasy than Karlsson, so if you have to pay with two very good players to get him, you do it because, as you put it, consolidating is a good strategy in a 10-team league. Make sense?

[ross10019]

If he's trading Crosby, guys, he isn't into consolidating talent. He is into addressing needs. He has talent at C. He needs it at W and at D. Selling Crosby (for any price) is not a way to consolidate talent. It's shipping it out the door. No one will replace him, likely for another 10 years...

That said, if he does do this, he likely increases his strength at other positions and should have the depth to win (especially if Crosby goes to a non contender...).

Just because he's trading away Crosby (and therefore "de-consolidating" at C), doesn't mean he's not "consolidating" elsewhere. When you pick up Karlsson and give away two or more players, you are consolidating by giving away multiple players to lock up the best dman in the world, fantasy-wise. That's consolidation, no matter how you slice it.

But so many people don't see how Karlsson is effectively the Crosby of the D position that I can understand how they don't see it this way.

[yougo]

Same way Crosby is worth more than two other elite forwards who together outpoint him, Karlsson is worth more than two other elite dman who together outpoint him. That's what you mean by consolidation, and it applies both to fwd and D. There is no better dman to own in fantasy than Karlsson, so if you have to pay with two very good players to get him, you do it because, as you put it, consolidating is a good strategy in a 10-team league. Make sense?

Yes, yes it does. But wouldn't it be better for him (hypothetically) to give two good/great player to land Karlsson than moving the best fantasy player in the NHL (Crosby) ?

[ross10019]

Yes, yes it does. But wouldn't it be better for him (hypothetically) to give two good/great player to land Karlsson than moving the best fantasy player in the NHL (Crosby) ?

Of course, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to get Karlsson. Not surprised it's taking Crosby in this case.

I can tell you it would take one hell of an offer to get Karlsson off of me, to the point where it's not going to happen. I have both Karlsson and Getzlaf and I'll tell you right now I would NOT trade them for Crosby, nor would I for Stamkos or Ovechkin, I would consider that overpayment.

[yougo]

Of course, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to get Karlsson. Not surprised it's taking Crosby in this case.

I can tell you it would take one hell of an offer to get Karlsson off of me, to the point where it's not going to happen. I have both Karlsson and Getzlaf and I'll tell you right now I would NOT trade them for Crosby, nor would I for Stamkos or Ovechkin, I would consider that overpayment.

Fair enough. There might be a little "owner bias" here, but I can understand why somebody would prefer Karlsson & Getzlaf to Crosby.

Good discussion. Rep for ya

[ross10019]

Fair enough. There might be a little "owner bias" here, but I can understand why somebody would prefer Karlsson & Getzlaf to Crosby.

Good discussion. Rep for ya

Perhaps, a "little".

Seriously though, Karlsson is the real deal. Getzlaf, he's still affected by a couple of mediocre years and some injury issues, I think he'll need a couple of full seasons with point totals like last year to rehabilitate himself and reestablish his value as a truly elite Cman.

[The Hockey Hitman]

The trade ended up being:

Parise/Karlsson/2014 1st round entry draft pick

For

Crosby.

[ross10019]

The trade ended up being:

Parise/Karlsson/2014 1st round entry draft pick

For

Crosby.

Oh man I love that trade for you, congrats! Just watch Parise and Karlsson go now, and you will quickly forget Sid the Kid. What pick is the 1st rounder, coincidentally, and who do you think you'll nab with that one?

[The Hockey Hitman]

Well it'll be a 2014 draft eligible.....his team could finish anywhere from 2nd to 7th so...kind of up in the air where the pick ends up but it will be a top 10 pick for sure. Of course, I could always trade the pick for more help now.

[fungchen3]

The trade ended up being:

Parise/Karlsson/2014 1st round entry draft pick

For

Crosby.

Good trade. Parise is a lock for 75-85 and Karlsson is a beast. Hold onto the pick (unless you get a significant offer) - if it ends up 2nd or 3rd overall you will land a STUD in that slot.

[ross10019]

Well it'll be a 2014 draft eligible.....his team could finish anywhere from 2nd to 7th so...kind of up in the air where the pick ends up but it will be a top 10 pick for sure. Of course, I could always trade the pick for more help now.

Agree with Fungchen, hold onto the pick and maybe the guy tanks!

[The Hockey Hitman]

I know the other GM will likely see this thread so....he definitely won't tank.

Here's his updated roster:

Centers:

Sidney Crosby (PIT - C) *A
Ryan Getzlaf (ANH - C) *A
Pavel Datsyuk (DET - C/LW) *C
Jason Spezza (OTT - C)
Martin Hanzal (PHX - C)
Olli Jokinen (WPG - C)
Ryan O'Reilly (COL - C)

Chris Kreider (NYR - C/LW)
Bo Horvat (VAN - C)
Joe Colborne (TOR - C)
Colton Sissons (NSH - C)
Rickard Rakell (ANH - C)
Mark Jankowski (CGY - C)

Left Wingers:

Henrik Zetterberg (DET - C/LW) *A
Kris Versteeg (FLA - LW/RW)
Scott Hartnell (PHI - LW)
Beau Bennett (PIT - LW)
Bryan Bickell (CHI - LW)
Steve Ott (BUF - C/LW)
Vinny Prospal (??? - LW)
Jamie McGinn (COL - LW)
Tyler Kennedy - (SJS - LW)
Simon Gagne (??? - LW)
Ryan Malone (TBL - LW)

Matt Puempel (OTT - LW)
Nicolas Kerdiles (ANH - LW)

Right Wingers:

Phil Kessel (TOR - RW)
Marian Gaborik (CLB - RW)
Chris Stewart (STL - RW)
Justin Williams (LAK - RW)
Damien Brunner (DET - RW)
Bobby Butler - (FLA - RW)

Alex Chiasson (DAL - RW)
Teemu Pulkkinen (DET - RW)
Nick Baptiste (BUF - RW)

Defensemen:

Jon Carlson (WSH - D)
Lubomir Visnovsky (NYI - D)
Dennis Wideman (CGY - D)
Ryan McDonagh (NYR - D)
Erik Johnson (COL - D)
Joni Pitkanen (CAR - D)
Kevin Bieksa (VAN - D)
Marc Staal (NYR - D)
Jakob Kindl (DET - D)
Sheldon Souray (ANH - D)

Kevin Connauton (DAL - D)
Hampus Lindholm (ANH - D)
David Rundblad (PHX - D)
Adam Almqvist (DET - D)
Carl Gunnarsson (TOR - D)

Goaltenders:

Carey Price (MTL - G)
Pekka Rinne (NSH - G)
Jonas Hiller (ANH - G)
Viktor Fasth (ANH - G)
Tim Thomas (??? - G)

Niklas Svedberg (BOS - G)
Anders Nilsson (NYI - G)
Kevin Poulin (NYI -G)
Laurent Brossoit (CGY - G)
Marcus Hogberg (OTT - G)

60/60

[The Hockey Hitman]

My updated roster for comparisons sake. We are two of the top 5 teams in the league for sure.

CENTERS (12)
Steven Stamkos*A
Joe Thornton*
Anze Kopitar*
Mika Zibanejad*
Drew Shore
Alex Killorn
Max Domi*
Mikhail Grigorenko*
Jean-Gabriel Pageau
J.T. Miller
Mark McNeill
Radek Faksa

LEFT WINGERS (11)
Milan Lucic *
Zach Parise *
Patrik Elias
Jiri Tlusty
Valterri Filppula
Artem Anisimov
Carl Hagelin
Brandon Prust
Tanner Pearson
Jonathan Audy-Marchessault
Toni Rajala

RIGHT WINGERS (15)
Martin St. Louis *C
Ryan Callahan
Shane Doan
Danny Briere
Chris Neil
Derek Dorsett
Cal Clutterbuck
Pierre-Marc Bouchard
Michael Frolik
Cam Atkinson
Reilly Smith
Christian Thomas
Nikita Kucherov*
Seth Griffith
Marko Dano

DEFENSEMEN (14)
Zdeno Chara *A
Erik Karlsson*
Shea Weber*
Tobias Enstrom*
Brian Campbell*
Francois Beauchemin
Fedor Tyutin
Dan Hamhuis
John Moore
Adam Larsson*
Mark Pysyk
Ryan Whitney
Matt Donovan
Josh Morrissey

GOALTENDERS (8)
Henrik Lundqvist*
Sergei Bobrovsky*
Jimmy Howard*
Kari Lehtonen*
Ben Scrivens
Calvin Pickard
Sami Aittokallio
Eric Comrie

[agentzero]

Agree that Karlsson is the real deal but not ready to say he is the Crosby of his position... Too early.

To me consolidating means keeping all the best players available and not weakening an area to do it.. Addressing a need in another area is not consolidating.. It's more a lateral move. In this case he had depth at C, so it is a slight upward move. But make no mistake, he lost the best player in the deal, still.

Look, I know it's getting damn near impossible to acquire the Karlssons of this World. Then again, isn't it impossible (and shouldn't it be) to acquire the Crosbys? I take your point that Karlsson is the best player at his position right now. I'm just not ready to say he is a once in 20 years type of player. Crosby is. I don't care what the naysayers say. He is the best and it ain't even close. The skill, drive, physical tools and mind for the game are, as a package, above everyone else.


That said, good trade and better to get a solid W instead of another C. You got stronger in weaker areas by far. Well done. I might use the pick to land another strong winger.

[The Hockey Hitman]

The skill, drive, physical tools and mind for the game are, as a package, above everyone else.

Very true....and I agree Crosby is the best player in the deal....and in the world, especially for fantasy hockey. It's not really debatable right now.

However, he also carries significantly more risk due to his concussion/injury history. I already told the other GM if he didn't have the high risk of injury no way would I do this trade unless it was an insane overpayment....something like Getzlaf/Parise/Kessel/Karlsson+

In conclusion, I feel confident in the production I will get from the players I acquired....plus another asset I could realistically turn into another 1st line player via trade or draft, outweighs having Crosby for me. At the end of the day it's about winning league titles, and for my league this trade should help me achieve that sooner.