Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[bondon]

Turned on the tv just in time to see Johnson pitch the first inning.

15 minutes later it's 4-0 Baltimore.

Sigh.

[bondon]

Some more fodder for this discussion, What Went Wrong With the Toronto Blue Jays.

The writer alludes to the Blue Jays' best option here being to continue pushing all-in with whatever assets they have remaining to try to win now. I tend to disagree with this notion, just as I disagreed with the notion that they should push all-in to get Dickey. I think if you push all-in to try and salvage this season, what you get is at best like 85 wins, which would be another failure. We all know this was a "three-year plan" because that's what AA said it was. Year One can be a failure, so what. You push all-in and suddenly years Two and Three flop as well.

I'm not adverse to the team making more moves to upgrade the roster, particularly the starting pitching as the article suggests but it can't be a one-year solution.

Finally got the time to sit down and read this article (holy crap man it was long...).

I don't just tend to disagree with this notion, I STRONGLY disagree with this notion. Give these guys a chance to start the season fresh next year and see what they can do and then re-assess. Our prospect cupboard has been seriously depleted and while we have some good prospects like Sanchez, Stroman, and Gose...beyond that we're talking about guys who could MAYBE turn out to be servicable MLB players.

Not to mention it doesn't help that we can't ****ing sign our first round picks. Okay, we get the 11th overall pick next draft plus our own because Bickford didn't sign, but that's a year of development on a prospect that we just lost... as far as I'm concerned there is no good spin on that situation.

PS: I also didn't like the acquisition of Dickey at the time but I was willing to give it a chance and trust in AA given what he had done in the past. It's looking like a really bad one though at this stage.

[bondon]

Anybody pay attention to Zaun's analysis today regarding Chris Davis and the Jays pitchers insisting on serving up pitches away from Davis and getting pummelled for homeruns to the opposite field instead of jamming him hard inside?

Very obvious that he's referring to JPA's game calling and calling it into question to me.

[metaldude26]

Anybody pay attention to Zaun's analysis today regarding Chris Davis and the Jays pitchers insisting on serving up pitches away from Davis and getting pummelled for homeruns to the opposite field instead of jamming him hard inside?

Very obvious that he's referring to JPA's game calling and calling it into question to me.

JPA just isn't a very good catcher. I'd honestly take a scrub at the plate so long as he's an ace behind it because that's how you maximize this pitching talent you've invested so much into.

[bondon]

JPA just isn't a very good catcher. I'd honestly take a scrub at the plate so long as he's an ace behind it because that's how you maximize this pitching talent you've invested so much into.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not defending JPA he sucks ass behind the plate there's no two ways about it. I've always been of the opinion that I'd much rather have a catcher with a good arm, solid sense of the strike zone, the ability to block the plate and call the game. Oddly enough though, I read an article about three weeks ago that showed that JPA actually is one of the better framing catchers in the league.

The funniest thing is that a lot of the guys in the league can do all of that and still hit ~.220 which is where JPA is...basically with him you're trading defense for the occasional homerun which irks me.

Not to mention other catchers probably won't have a higher than 7:1 K/BBB ratio...Look at John Buck... guy is hitting 3 points below Arencibia with 2 fewer homeruns but has 6 more RBI and 11 fewer errors. Not to mention a K/BBB ratio under 4.

In any case, I feel like Zaun is taking serious joy in pointing out these mistakes. Some of his wording from the broadcast was hilarious.
"What, you didn't learn your lesson after the first two pitches he crushed?"

lol

[bondon]

Want to keep my Blue Jays faithful (well, those of you that still care) up to date on the latest so here is a random assortment of things I've read recently:

- Apparently the Jays are in the running for Garza. Horrible move unless they're sure they can ink him to an extension. I actually like Garza a lot but don't think we can afford to completely dump our farm system which is probably what would need to happen.

“I think the starting pitching,” Encarnacion said when asked where the Blue Jays most needed to be better. “If we want to win, we know and they know we need to pitch better. Everybody has the experience, so they know what they have to do.”

Bang on as the team ranks 24 in ERA despite having a great bullpen. A little surprised to hear him be so honest though.

- Santos' rehab is ongoing but might have hit a snag yesterday, he's been pitching in Dunedin without issues for the most part, but last night his fastball couldn't top 89 and he got smacked around in 2/3 of an inning. It was the first time he'd pitched in b2b nights though, so we'll see what happens with that. Drew Hutchison is also in Dunedin doing his rehab from Tommy John.

- Mets manager Terry Collins believes that RA Dickey is struggling due to fatigue + injuries. Hope he's right, otherwise we just traded a bunch of legit prospects for a one-hit wonder.

[Axeman33]

I find it quite refreshing to see/hear a player come out and actually call out a player/players like EE did. It's not like he is saying something any true Jays fan doesn't already know. He isn't leaking club house info that should stay in the clubhouse. he's point out the obvious. I don't see how it is going to change or improve their pitching by publicly saying something, but still refreshing to hear someone from the team acknowledge what the fans already should know. A little honesty is alway a good thing to hear instead of the same ole BS and cliche's.

[bondon]

I personally found this article on the Jays' bullpen to be a fantastic read, and a great in depth look at the contracts of all of the bullpen arms. Interesting strategy that AA has employed to accumulate our strong bullpen arms, it could pan out if these guys can manage to not get complacent on the team and keep on pushing each other as they spend all these years together.

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2013/7...ething-unusual

The basic idea is that the bullpen is locked in to this team for the long-haul. Other than Oliver and Janssen, all of the bullpen arms are under club control until 2017 at the very earliest. Not to mention if Brad Lincoln can develop like they were hoping he would, and Kyle Drabek, with all of his injury issues, could be salvaged as a reliever, that would give them two more good arms that are under control for awhile.

Depending on how you look at it these facts could advocate trading Janssen

[Mr_Sausage]

John Gibbons has also contributed to Dickeys bad season.

There have been numerous times this year where Dickeys knuckle just isn't dancing and he get hits hard but he keeps the team in the game down by just a few runs. Then Gibbons marches him back out there in the 6th,7th, 8th innings when it's painfully obvious that the opposition is starting to square up the knuckle. Then he loses all of it and the jays are out of the game. He needs to be pulling Dickey much sooner than he has when he has struggled.

[TheWhale]

As much as I agree with EE and the majority, I think making a trade for a SP would be a mistake. The Jays aren't in a position to make any noise this year and to give up pieces of their future for that is short sighted. Add to the fact that Drabek, Morrow, Hutchinson and Romero (gulp) should all be ready to contribute in some capacity this year or next, SP should not be priority. Instead, I would like to see them acquire a 3B and solidify the infield. Izturiz and Bonz can stay as the utility/bench guys they are meant to and Lawrie becomes the everyday 2B.

[Axeman33]

As much as I agree with EE and the majority, I think making a trade for a SP would be a mistake. The Jays aren't in a position to make any noise this year and to give up pieces of their future for that is short sighted. Add to the fact that Drabek, Morrow, Hutchinson and Romero (gulp) should all be ready to contribute in some capacity this year or next, SP should not be priority. Instead, I would like to see them acquire a 3B and solidify the infield. Izturiz and Bonz can stay as the utility/bench guys they are meant to and Lawrie becomes the everyday 2B.

I am less worried about the 3rd base situation then I am about the starting rotation. Making noise this year or not, their rotation is STILL a mess. Dickey has been anything like a CY Young winner (not that I am surprised, I didnt expect him to repeat that level). Johnson has 1 win so far this year and for a guy looking for a new contract, he really has been a disappointment. Buerle has been soft and inconsistent. No one expected him to be a top of the rotation type of guy but I certainly hoped for more consistency from him. Morrow, while he has tons of potential cant stay healthy long enough to put it together.

Their best starting pitcher is Rodgers, and he was rescued from the bullpen.

To say their rotation is anything but a train wreck right now is probably an understatement. 3B seems like a minor issue compared to the mess they are in as far as their starting pitching goes.

I think AA has a lot of work to do, again!

[bondon]

As much as I agree with EE and the majority, I think making a trade for a SP would be a mistake.

I agree. I think what he, and what most of us are thinking, is that the guys we do have in the rotation have to stop sucking lol. I would hate for them to sell the farm for Garza and watch him walk in FA. Would be so stupid. Buehrle has been the closest thing to consistency that we've had and even he's been average at best.

[bigbabybuda]

A.A will not make any trade for a starting pitcher who is a rental. He is not ******ed! The Jays have about a 3% chance of making the playoffs. This year is over and he must know that.

[Mr_Sausage]

Pathetic. Bases loaded in the 8th, down by two, no outs and they blow it by not getting anything. Awful at bat by Rasmus. Peralta can't throw a strike to save his life and Rasmus swings at an awful second pitch to foul out. Izturus follows that awful at bat by having one of his own and strikes out looking while looking stupid. Then Arencibia tops it off with with a strikeout. You can coach fundamentals but you can't fix what's between the players ears. Those guys are professionals and should be embarrassed by not even putting a freaking ball in the field of play.

/rant

[bondon]

This ceremony is awesome. Great that they managed to get all of the guys already raised to the level of excellence, not to mention I loved how Delgado got Green, Gonzalez, and Cruz Jr. to come as those were some of the guys that I actually remember watching live.

Delgado was an awesome player for this organization, arguably the best offensive force that this organization has seen. His numbers are so incredible you have to see it to believe it. His 2000 stats:

.344 AVG, 1.134 OPS, 44 HR, 134 RBI, 123 BBB vs. 104 SO

All while playing every. single. game.

After becoming an every day player he never had an average below .262, only had fewer than 30 homeruns once, and that was in his first full year. After his first two seasons as an everyday player he proceeded to score an OPS over .900 in every year from 98-04. His RBI totals are absolutely insane.

Could go on and on about this guy. BEAST. Wish the Jays still had someone like this on the team.