Kunitz for Toews

[Skin Blues]

LOL at people freaking out because fantasy stats don't reflect real-life player value. How dare Kunitz be better than Jonathan Toews in a fantasy league?! GRRRRRRRRR!!!

[bondon]

LOL at people making straw man arguments. How dare people imply that because Toews' career PPG average of .90 is better than Kunitz's .70, that he has any sort of fantasy superiority.

Shucks, I'll even cherrypick it down to Kunitz's numbers in Pittsburgh (.80).

.80<.90? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

[lucifer316]

LOL at people making straw man arguments. How dare people imply that because Toews' career PPG average of .90 is better than Kunitz's .70, that he has any sort of fantasy superiority.

Shucks, I'll even cherrypick it down to Kunitz's numbers in Pittsburgh (.80).

.80<.90? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

the only one making straw man arguments here is you

i never once said that kunitz is a better player than toews and yet there are pages of posts by you arguing that i said just that

and the only one cherrypicking anything in this thread is you

but go ahead make another post falsely accusing everyone else of doing what you are doing and then claiming they are the ones making straw man arguments

in the words of inigo montoya "you keep using that word, i dont think it means what you think it means"

[Skin Blues]

LOL at people making straw man arguments. How dare people imply that because Toews' career PPG average of .90 is better than Kunitz's .70, that he has any sort of fantasy superiority.

Shucks, I'll even cherrypick it down to Kunitz's numbers in Pittsburgh (.80).

.80<.90? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

What's Kunitz' career PPG when playing on a line with Crosby? I'll wait while you go look that up.

[bondon]

the only one making straw man arguments here is you

i never once said that kunitz is a better player than toews and yet there are pages of posts by you arguing that i said just that

and the only one cherrypicking anything in this thread is you

but go ahead make another post falsely accusing everyone else of doing what you are doing and then claiming they are the ones making straw man arguments

in the words of inigo montoya "you keep using that word, i dont think it means what you think it means"

Sorry dude, which side did you pick again?
I can't remember.

What's Kunitz' career PPG when playing on a line with Crosby? I'll wait while you go look that up.

Nah I'd rather you do the hard work and adds something of value to the discussion rather than sarcasm. I'll wait while you go look that up.

[Skin Blues]

Nah I'd rather you do the hard work and adds something of value to the discussion rather than sarcasm. I'll wait while you go look that up.

Already did, bro. Only took one post breaking down his 2010-11 time with Crosby and obviously we know what he's doing this season. Took about 2 minutes of research and one sentence to present a concise argument. Compared to angrily spewing nonsense in a series of reactionary tl;dr posts, I'd say it's you who needs to rethink your contributions here. (EDIT: apologies, I see that it was the other guy with the majority of those long blathering posts)

Even if you give Kunitz a shooting percentage of zero, he's still pretty damn close to the points pace that Toews is on. So you can't just point to the shooting % as the reason it won't last. If you regress down to his career shooting % then he's still over a PPG this season. Something Toews has never done.

[larrylintz]

I have no idea how many total games K played with SC, but if you add 2010-11 to this year you've got 1.1 a game over 62 games-- that's a ppg pace Toews has never done over a full season. Anyone who has seen them play together knows they complement each other perfectly. Add in the fact that Pens play way more defensively-weak teams, and play a wide-open style, and that puts him clearly ahead of Toews in terms of upside. Of course, for the hyper-cautious there's the risk that injuries to two players -- Kunitz and Sid -- would wreck his elite production. But Toews isn't exactly an Iron Man so i'd temper that view somewhat.

[lucifer316]

Sorry dude, which side did you pick again?
I can't remember.

i wouldnt trade either for the other in a one year

but you knew that

[bondon]

Already did, bro. Only took one post breaking down his 2010-11 time with Crosby and obviously we know what he's doing this season. Took about 2 minutes of research and one sentence to present a concise argument. Compared to angrily spewing nonsense in a series of reactionary tl;dr posts, I'd say it's you who needs to rethink your contributions here. (EDIT: apologies, I see that it was the other guy with the majority of those long blathering posts)

Even if you give Kunitz a shooting percentage of zero, he's still pretty damn close to the points pace that Toews is on. So you can't just point to the shooting % as the reason it won't last. If you regress down to his career shooting % then he's still over a PPG this season. Something Toews has never done.

You know what dude, fair enough. You have provided some good arguments here and I'll hit you with some rep when I get to a computer.

For the record I no longer know what the definition of cherry picking information or timeframe is. But I wasn't the one calling that into question anyways. I buy your points.

[Skin Blues]

I have no idea how many total games K played with SC, but if you add 2010-11 to this year you've got 1.1 a game over 62 games-- that's a ppg pace Toews has never done over a full season. Anyone who has seen them play together knows they complement each other perfectly. Add in the fact that Pens play way more defensively-weak teams, and play a wide-open style, and that puts him clearly ahead of Toews in terms of upside. Of course, for the hyper-cautious there's the risk that injuries to two players -- Kunitz and Sid -- would wreck his elite production. But Toews isn't exactly an Iron Man so i'd temper that view somewhat.

Yeah that's a valid criticism. You're doubling the injury risk. But if Crosby goes down it's not like Kunitz goes to zero points. He might have his points cut in half though, especially if Malkin isn't around to latch onto.

[horrorfan]

Was curious so decided to have a look at how both have been producing since the beginning of this thread:

Kunitz 8 points in 9 games (13 games remaining)
Toews 9 points in 6 games (16 games remaining)

Not much in it. We'll see how the final month shapes up.

[LakeSoup]

Goddamn Kunitz...so annoying...the Leino of the Pens.
I hate to say it but you might have to go with Kunitz with this one...

[cdubb]

Wow, actually read this entire thread. Was wondering why it was so long. (side note - reminds me of a thread discussing why a GM should trade Brian Elliot after his historic alltime NHL season, difference this is a one year.).

Flip a coin. People usually come down to earth based on past performance (that's why the top fantasy players get picked high every year). In a shortened lockout season, maybe Kunitz stays hot playing with Sid.

[larrylintz]

If it wasn't so much fun watching K and Sid, and if i didn't have a 35-point lead, i'd deal K 4 Toews or something better (I suspect one guy would give me Corey Perry and Eberle for him) now that Iginla's on board.

Upside is that K will get some time, perhaps, with Sid and Ig, including on the pp. Downside is that i suspect K's pp time will go down 30-40 pc.

One of my absolute favourite things in hockey pools is having two guys on the same team getting points together. I've had Lemieux and Coffey, Sakic and Steve Duchesne, a few others. Many x this year i've had zip from Crosby and K until middle or late in game, then boom, two quick goals and i have four points.

[Pargo]

If it wasn't so much fun watching K and Sid, and if i didn't have a 35-point lead, i'd deal K 4 Toews or something better (I suspect one guy would give me Corey Perry and Eberle for him) now that Iginla's on board.

Upside is that K will get some time, perhaps, with Sid and Ig, including on the pp. Downside is that i suspect K's pp time will go down 30-40 pc.

One of my absolute favourite things in hockey pools is having two guys on the same team getting points together. I've had Lemieux and Coffey, Sakic and Steve Duchesne, a few others. Many x this year i've had zip from Crosby and K until middle or late in game, then boom, two quick goals and i have four points.

I know what you mean, I have Stamkos, MSL and Purcell, when they get a PP goal together.. zomg.