Too much for Schneider?

[teamplayer7]

The players are not robbing him blind ------ The problem is a team trading their 1st and 3rd pick overall for another teams 12, 15, 16, and 18 before the season even starts. They placed a value on those picks by picking them so high. Buy turning around and trading them straight away is very suspect

[bondon]

But your NOT a person who drafts Goalies early, I'm not as well. People that would draft lundquist in first round surley would not trade for a 12th, 15th and 16th pick........IM Saying with the setup of this league, Players like Niemi, Hossa, and Semins are available in these rounds......but it doesnt mean you trade Lundquist for those epicks

But GM "X" here is not trading Lundqvist for picks, he would be trading them for players... Let me put it this way. If your internet glitched out in round 2, and you autodrafted a guy who is injured for a considerable amount of time. And later after the draft you were offered a substantial package of players that would greatly improve your team for that second round pick, would you not do it? Where a player is selected means absolutely nothing. What matters is does a trade improve my team

12 keepers + 3 farm keepers - After round 12 most people start picking up Fram players if they have not already done so

Hell, if other GMs in my league are starting to pick up farm players after round 12 just because and there are still quality players available, I'll just take advantage and draft players that will help me win now and take the championship please and thank you.

[bondon]

The players are not robbing him blind ------ The problem is a team trading their 1st and 3rd pick overall for another teams 12, 15, 16, and 18 before the season even starts. They placed a value on those picks by picking them so high. Buy turning around and trading them straight away is very suspect

Or they just don't know what they're doing.

Unless you're accusing this person of collusion, which is an issue that you need to address with your league mates and I'm not really interested in discussing.

[teamplayer7]

There was no glich in this draft - Im not disagreeing with what your saying but there is a balance between what were both saying.

IF YOU DONT SEE THAT TRADING (Unless error when drafting)
1st and 3rd 19th, 20th overall for 12, 15, 16, and 18 IS BAD BUSINESS. Im done talking because YOU WOULD NEVER DO IT.....AND IF you are telling me otherwise, your just lying.

[teamplayer7]

NO collusion.....The ONLY point I was making is that it is BAD BUSINESS / BAD GM Move to trade 1st and 3rd 19th, 20th overall for 12, 15, 16, and 18 either in drafting or trade.....one has to be BAD

[bondon]

There was no glich in this draft - Im not disagreeing with what your saying but there is a balance between what were both saying.

IF YOU DONT SEE THAT TRADING (Unless error when drafting)
1st and 3rd 19th, 20th overall for 12, 15, 16, and 18 IS BAD BUSINESS. Im done talking because YOU WOULD NEVER DO IT.....AND IF you are telling me otherwise, your just lying.

Of course I wouldn't trade my high picks for low picks. That is bad business. D'uh.

But after the draft they're not picks anymore. They're players...and I think that's what you're failing to see which is why this is like talking to a wall.

Would I trade my first three round draft picks for lower picks? Nope.
Would I trade players that I drafted for players that will improve my team? Yup.

[bondon]

NO collusion.....The ONLY point I was making is that it is BAD BUSINESS / BAD GM Move to trade 1st and 3rd 19th, 20th overall for 12, 15, 16, and 18 either in drafting or trade.....one has to be BAD

Bad business in the sense that he/she made a poor choice drafting Schneider in the first round.

But actually, good business if he/she accepts cdubbs deal because it would be a way for him/her to mitigate the damage that the mistake at the draft caused.

So again, don't know why you're so up in arms unless you suspect collusion. Even then I wouldn't understand because as I said I think the person receiving Niemi/Semin/Coyle is getting the better end of the deal anyway.

[teamplayer7]

YES but nobody would actually draft players that they didn't see as valuable with 1st and 3rd (unless mistake) and trade them before season......therfore in your Eyes you have value on those players 1st and 3rd value and wouldnt trade. When the season begins the values will change and then drafted position wont matter. This player puts st pick value on Schneider therefore doesnt make sense for him to trade directly after draft for the 15th and 16th (THIS SHOULD BE THOUGHT PROCESS IN HIS HEAD)......You would never trade your 1st round directly after the draft for those picks

[bondon]

YES but nobody would actually draft players that they didn't see as valuable with 1st and 3rd (unless mistake) and trade them before season......therfore in your Eyes you have value on those players 1st and 3rd value and wouldnt trade. When the season begins the values will change and then drafted position wont matter. This player puts st pick value on Schneider therefore doesnt make sense for him to trade directly after draft for the 15th and 16th (THIS SHOULD BE THOUGHT PROCESS IN HIS HEAD)......You would never trade your 1st round directly after the draft for those picks

Unfortunately for you he is managing his own team.

[Old_Smokie]

YES but nobody would actually draft players that they didn't see as valuable with 1st and 3rd (unless mistake) and trade them before season......therfore in your Eyes you have value on those players 1st and 3rd value and wouldnt trade. When the season begins the values will change and then drafted position wont matter. This player puts st pick value on Schneider therefore doesnt make sense for him to trade directly after draft for the 15th and 16th (THIS SHOULD BE THOUGHT PROCESS IN HIS HEAD)......You would never trade your 1st round directly after the draft for those picks

Is this the first year of this keeper?


Also to say that value doesn't change until the season starts is also a fallacy. If Lou doesn't sign then this deal makes a ton of sense for the guy who essentially send a time share or bench goalie for a goalie who might push for 65+ starts.

I think the problem here is that you feel as though the GM in question didn't value the picks/players the same way as you valued them. This however is mute point because it's his team. If he decides that the value of a player changes that's up to him to decide or reevaluate on his own terms. Being the commsioner of a league doesn't give you the right to tell people what they can and can't trade nor do the have to abide by your preconvieced notion of player value. You have already been told that most of the people here would take the Niemi side, I don't understand how or why you even think this is still debatable. You just keep spouting the same response on pick value.

[cdubb]

Yes it is a first year keeper. Here is my draft - Centres were going early so i just kept picking wingers and Dmen that I thought were relative steals.

RW * *Perry, Corey - ANA * * 1 * *
RW * *Neal, James - PIT * * 2 * *
G * *Rask, Tuukka - BOS * * 3 * *
LW * *Parise, Zach - MIN * * 4 * *
D * *Letang, Kris - PIT * * 5 * *
D * *Byfuglien, Dustin - WPG * *6 * *
RW Sharp, Patrick - CHI * * 7 * *
LW * *Eriksson, Loui - DAL * * 8 * *
RW * *St. Louis, Martin - TB * * 9 * *
LW * *Semin, Alexander - CAR * *10 * *
LW * *Vanek, Thomas - BUF * * 11 * *
D * *Suter, Ryan - MIN * * 12 * *
C * *Granlund, Mikael - MIN * * 13 * *
RW * *Tarasenko, Vladimir - STL * *14
C * *Krejci, David - BOS * *15 * *
D * *Yandle, Keith - PHO * *16
G * *Niemi, Antti - SJ * * 17
D * *Green, Mike - WAS * * 18 * *
C * *Desharnais, David - MON * *19 * *
C * *Berglund, Patrik - STL * * 20
C * *Grigorenko, Mikhail - BUF * *21 * *
G * *Backstrom, Niklas - MIN * *22
LW * *Martin, Matt - NYI * *23 * *
C * *Roy, Derek - DAL 24 * *
C * *Coyle, Charlie - MIN * * 25 * *
D * *Ellis, Ryan - NAS 26
D Wishniewski 27
C Zajac 28
D Pitkanen 29
G Harding 30

The other team in question drafted Schneider with pick 10 and Rinne with pick 11 B2B. However he values Rinne more and won't trade him. So I made offer for Schneider who is still splitting starts. I was trying to make deal fair by taking one of his 40 yr olds, and giving him a top prospect (he has Schultz, JT Brown, McIntyre, York, Barberio). The other GM also has Nash, Marleau, and Bergeron and he is not giving them away to me or anyone else. I am sure he has gotten offers from the majority of the league,

Like ppl said Niemi got 34W last year, 9th most, and was 10th rated Fantrax goalie. Anyway I cancelled/rejected the trade offer.

[Shoeless]

Is this the first year of this keeper?


Also to say that value doesn't change until the season starts is also a fallacy. If Lou doesn't sign then this deal makes a ton of sense for the guy who essentially send a time share or bench goalie for a goalie who might push for 65+ starts.

I think the problem here is that you feel as though the GM in question didn't value the picks/players the same way as you valued them. This however is mute point because it's his team. If he decides that the value of a player changes that's up to him to decide or reevaluate on his own terms. Being the commsioner of a league doesn't give you the right to tell people what they can and can't trade nor do the have to abide by your preconvieced notion of player value. You have already been told that most of the people here would take the Niemi side, I don't understand how or why you even think this is still debatable. You just keep spouting the same response on pick value.

Well responded Smokie - you are a better man than I when it comes to patience. I gave up two pages ago.

[cdubb]

Update:

Old GM just replaced with new GM, previous moves reversed, and he proceeds to trade

Rinne, Whitney, Jagr, Wideman
for
Varlamov, Oshie, Myers, Bjustad

I know he gets rid of some old guys, but I think this is a worse deal. Rinne is a vezina candidate, and Nashville will only play more defensively from now on.

[Old_Smokie]

To be honest man, just find yourself a new league. Why deal with the headache?

[cdubb]

To be honest man, just find yourself a new league. Why deal with the headache?

cuz i paid my money already ... but the other guy did get a refund