Nash trade Vs Heatley trade

[KoHolga]

So I was just thinking and the Heatley trade was an almost identical situation as what Nash put on the Blue Jackets. At the time everyone hated on the Heatley deal big time and a better offer was given from a Canadian team (Oilers). There was and still is reason for that hate of that deal. Now the same thing happens to the Blue Jackets a better offer from Canadian team (Ottawa) but got a unanimous hatred of the deal they accepted.


The Heatley deal breaks down like this:

Ottawa Senators traded Dany Heatley and a fifth-round draft pick in 2010

to

San Jose Sharks for Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo and a second-round draft pick in 2010


The Nash deal breaks down like this:

Columbus Blue Jackets traded Rick Nash, Steve Delisle and a conditional 3rd round selection

to

New York Rangers for Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Tim Erixon and a 1st round selection in 2013.


Now I am looking at this and it looks like the Blue jackets have done better even with the Michalek redemption season... At the time no one knew for sure if Cheechoo's career was 100% over.. We all were pretty sure but that was one piece that could have redeemed that deal

I personally think that Heater is the better player especially since he hit 50/50 back to back and got less return but I would love to hear everyone else’s insight into what I think is a comparable situation that both players put their organizations in

[fungchen3]

I think Tim Erixon is the swing man in this deal. If he pans out, this deal could end up a very nice one for Columbus. You know what you're getting from Dubinsky and Anisimov but Erixon could be a stud. Right now this deal "looks" like a big win for Rangers and Nash will thrive in the Apple. But it could end up being a win-win trade if Erixon blossoms.

[Big Ev]

Nash got the better return, as he should have, although Michalek is the best player out of the two returns. He had more value as he is the more complete player, but I'd say the two situations are pretty similar. Heatley pretty much dictated where he wanted to go, and he leaked his trade request through the media unlike Nash who stayed in the background.

Even though Ottawa won the Heatley trade (Michalek is the better player right now and a younger and cheaper), you also gotta look at the first deal as well that was vetoed by Heatley.

Cogliano, Penner, and Smid.

which is more similar to the Nash return (Colgiano and Penner had more value then). Cheechoo wasn't even a factor as they didn't even want him, they just had to take on his salary. After one trade was kiboshed, his value decreased and the return would always be lower.

[Bass56]

I think Tim Erixon is the swing man in this deal. If he pans out, this deal could end up a very nice one for Columbus. You know what you're getting from Dubinsky and Anisimov but Erixon could be a stud. Right now this deal "looks" like a big win for Rangers and Nash will thrive in the Apple. But it could end up being a win-win trade if Erixon blossoms.

Agreed, but I also think that Columbus has a good top-9 fowards crop. No stars or flashy players, but they have youth, size and speed, which could cause many surprises next year (lines below are mixed up, with C's playing on the wing, but it gives us a good idea of things to come):

Foligno-Anisimov-Atkinson
Dubinsky-Brassard-Umberger
Prospal-Johansen-Gillies

I'm thinking they could pull off the type of season the Jets had last year.

[kevinsrangers]

nash got a better retyrn and he is the better player- makes sense.

[rtstr]

Nash got the better return, as he should have, although Michalek is the best player out of the two returns. He had more value as he is the more complete player, but I'd say the two situations are pretty similar. Heatley pretty much dictated where he wanted to go, and he leaked his trade request through the media unlike Nash who stayed in the background.

Even though Ottawa won the Heatley trade (Michalek is the better player right now and a younger and cheaper), you also gotta look at the first deal as well that was vetoed by Heatley.

Cogliano, Penner, and Smid.

which is more similar to the Nash return (Colgiano and Penner had more value then). Cheechoo wasn't even a factor as they didn't even want him, they just had to take on his salary. After one trade was kiboshed, his value decreased and the return would always be lower.

Michalek is definitely younger and cheaper than Heatley, but there is no way that he's a better player. I'd bet any amount of money that last season will be his career high in goals and points.

Sure, one can knock on Heatley due to his compete level over the years. No argument there. But he is immensely more talented than Milan Michalek. He also rarely gets injured, whereas Michalek is made of glass. It's not really even close between the two-- at least when you're using the phrase "better player". From a pure value standpoint, I'm not sure how you can say the Senators won that trade. At the time of the deal he was a top goal scorer in the league, and even now, if money isn't the main factor I'd rather have Heatley on my team.

[Big Ev]

Michalek is definitely younger and cheaper than Heatley, but there is no way that he's a better player. I'd bet any amount of money that last season will be his career high in goals and points.

Sure, one can knock on Heatley due to his compete level over the years. No argument there. But he is immensely more talented than Milan Michalek. He also rarely gets injured, whereas Michalek is made of glass. It's not really even close between the two-- at least when you're using the phrase "better player". From a pure value standpoint, I'm not sure how you can say the Senators won that trade. At the time of the deal he was a top goal scorer in the league, and even now, if money isn't the main factor I'd rather have Heatley on my team.

Michalek is the better overall player right now, the more complete player. Even if Heatley scored more than him, and even if last year was his career high in point and goals, he's the better player because he contributes in more ways. He plays PK, he is good defensively, he's a much much better skater, etc. He also has character, something Heatley doesn't. I'm confident that most people would take Michalek over Heatley today in a league wide redraft.

Heatley might not even get 50 points next year. He has knee and shoulder issues that have contributed to his decline. Even if he is not missing games, he is still banged up, which effects his skating and his production. There's a reason his goals have declined since scoring 50. He can't keep up and can't shoot the same way he did before. His talent level is not what is used to be. There's a big, big difference between Heatley in 2012 and Heatley in 2005. I would bet that Michalek outscores him again next year.

It's quite clear Ottawa is happy with the trade today. Even if they didn't "win" it, they didn't lose it. It's all they could ask for because they were never going to get fair value for Heatley at the time.

All the Sharks have left from the deal is Martin Havlat.

[Big Ev]

and yeah I admit that if the two had similar cap hits, it might be a closer race for me

[rtstr]

Michalek is the better overall player right now, the more complete player. Even if Heatley scored more than him, and even if last year was his career high in point and goals, he's the better player because he contributes in more ways. He plays PK, he is good defensively, he's a much much better skater, etc. He also has character, something Heatley doesn't. I'm confident that most people would take Michalek over Heatley today in a league wide redraft.

Heatley might not even get 50 points next year. He has knee and shoulder issues that have contributed to his decline. Even if he is not missing games, he is still banged up, which effects his skating and his production. There's a reason his goals have declined since scoring 50. He can't keep up and can't shoot the same way he did before. His talent level is not what is used to be. There's a big, big difference between Heatley in 2012 and Heatley in 2005. I would bet that Michalek outscores him again next year.

It's quite clear Ottawa is happy with the trade today. Even if they didn't "win" it, they didn't lose it. It's all they could ask for because they were never going to get fair value for Heatley at the time.

All the Sharks have left from the deal is Martin Havlat.

I think Ottawa definitely lost the trade. They should have gotten more for him. Easy to say that now I guess, because I don't think they knew Cheechoo was going to completely disappear. But just because one player is more "complete", doesn't make him more valuable to a roster. A lof of NHLers are complete players-- few NHLers are dynamic scorers. Heatley may not be an elite scorer now, but when the trade was made, he was. They could have gotten more for a player like that.

I agree Heatley today is different from Heatley a few years ago. But I don't think Michalek is anything more than a good second line player. He may contribute in all those areas you said, but at the same time, the Senators have pretty poor depth up front so they have no better options. He's not an elite penalty killer or defensive forward. Above average? Yes. But in today's NHL that's not all that rare. I think a lot of teams would use other players to fill those roles even if they had Michalek.

I'll take the good with the bad. Knee/Shoulder issues or not, I think a good offseason will help him a lot. I'd be shocked if he regresses. Not saying Michalek is a slouch, but even today, give me Heatley.

I tend to think Zach Parise is saying the same thing, too.

EDIT: and yea it's easy to say that if they had the same cap hit then it's a closer race. but at the same time, that might not even be a fair way to look at it. The fact is they don't have the same cap hit, so you're right, that's a big factor that should be acknowledged.
But my main point is, I think at that time, the Sens could have landed a better main piece than Michalek.

[Big Ev]

I think Ottawa definitely lost the trade. They should have gotten more for him. Just because one player is more "complete" doesn't make him more valuable to a roster. There are so many variables. Heatley's situation is a lot different now with Zach in town.

I agree Heatley today is different from Heatley a few years ago. But I don't think Michalek is anything more than a good second line player. He may contribute in all those areas you said, but at the same time, the Senators have pretty poor depth up front so they have no better options. I think a lot of teams would use other players to fill those roles even if they had Michalek.

I'll take the good with the bad. Knee/Shoulder issues or not, I think a good offseason will help him a lot. I'd be shocked if he regresses. Not saying Michalek is a slouch, but even today, give me Heatley.

I tend to think Zach Parise is saying the same thing, too.

They did get more for him, they got Cogliano, Penner, and Smid, but Dany D-Bag vetoed it. There was no way they were getting anything else for him after it was clear he wanted to go to San Jose and San Jose only. They asked for Pavelski every time, and they couldn't get him. If you think they could have got more, you didn't understand the situation. Fans on the outside have no clue what is going on and what is being offered. They had a list to work with, so they only discussed with those teams, and then finally San Jose was the only one left. They won the deal for themselves because they replaced Heatley's production with cheaper alternative and got better as a team. If he was on the team, his caphit and salary would be a big obstacle right now. Just like Columbus and Nash.

Michalek plays the PK because he's good at it, not because they don't have other options. In fact he's not even their main PKer. You simply haven't watched him play if you think he's in other situations by default.

Michalek may not be anything more than good second liner, but so is Heatley. He is not a first liner and will never be one again. His situation is no different with Zach Parise on the team. Just because he might put up more points this year doesn't mean he actually got better. Heatley won't even get $4 million on his next contract.

This is literally talked about every offseason and every year Heatley gets worse and worse.

[Big Ev]

and that will be all I have to say on this matter as I have no interest discussing Dany Heatley any longer

[rtstr]

and that will be all I have to say on this matter as I have no interest discussing Dany Heatley any longer

Haha which explains why you'd take Michalek over Heatley. I swear, Sens fans live in a bubble. I knew plenty about the situation. I know Heatley was a scumbag about it. So was Clouston. And Sens management handled it wrong. I followed it intensely, because Heatley was my absolute favorite hockey player since he was a freshman in college. So don't say I'm a "fan on the outside who didn't understand the situation." Just because I don't eat sleep and breath Sens hockey doesn't mean I wasn't privy to what had happened. I could just as easily say you're blind to the situation because you hate Heatley and are in love with the Senators. You don't need to try and educate people in all of your posts. Your opinions are just that-- opinions. I respect them and welcome them because reading what other people think helps me understand the game more. But don't imply that I don't know what I'm talking about or haven't watched him play. I have. And I stand by the fact that I believe Heatley is better. As always, I appreciate your insight, but please don't try and write off mine as if it's explicitly wrong.

Regardless, you've made your point that you despise Dany Heatley, so I don't want you to give yourself a headache by talking about him haha. But he's a better player than you'll admit.

[Big Ev]

Haha which explains why you'd take Michalek over Heatley. I swear, Sens fans live in a bubble. I knew plenty about the situation. I know Heatley was a scumbag about it. So was Clouston. And Sens management handled it wrong. I followed it intensely, because Heatley was my absolute favorite hockey player since he was a freshman in college. So don't say I'm a "fan on the outside who didn't understand the situation." Just because I don't eat sleep and breath Sens hockey doesn't mean I wasn't privy to what had happened. I could just as easily say you're blind to the situation because you hate Heatley and are in love with the Senators. You don't need to try and educate people in all of your posts. Your opinions are just that-- opinions. I respect them and welcome them because reading what other people think helps me understand the game more. But don't imply that I don't know what I'm talking about or haven't watched him play. I have. And I stand by the fact that I believe Heatley is better. As always, I appreciate your insight, but please don't try and write off mine as if it's explicitly wrong.

Regardless, you've made your point that you despise Dany Heatley, so I don't want you to give yourself a headache by talking about him haha. But he's a better player than you'll admit.

I don't hate Heatley, at all. In fact, I think Sens fans talk about him waaaay too much and can't get over him. I went to the game where he came back and didn't even boo him like everyone else. Just don't want to keep talking about a guy who scored 53 points last year with a $7.5 million cap hit. I'd rather talk about somebody relevant like Shea Weber now.

your opinion isn't wrong, but I think you're living in the past and not accepting the current reality of the player in question. I'm not here to sway you either way. Good day sir.

[rtstr]

I don't hate Heatley, at all. In fact, I think Sens fans talk about him waaaay too much and can't get over him. I went to the game where he came back and didn't even boo him like everyone else. Just don't want to keep talking about a guy who scored 53 points last year with a $7.5 million cap hit. I'd rather talk about somebody relevant like Shea Weber now.

your opinion isn't wrong, but I think you're living in the past and not accepting the current reality of the player in question. I'm not here to sway you either way. Good day sir.

Thats a fair assessment. Don't think I'm living in the past though. I accept what Heatley is now-- just think its a bit more than you'll give him credit for. And I think you're bluffing when you say you don't hate him, haha. Also-- I think most players in the league are relevant and worthy of discussion- especially guys like Heatley. His performance next year will definitely be under the microscope. Good day to you as well lad

[Big Ev]

hey, if I hated him I probably wouldn't have drafted him last year.