Thinking about abandoning Closers...

[johnnymapman]

My league goes incredibly crazy for closers (every team has 3 plus many speculation RPs) and unfortunately this year I have been awful in the Saves category (record for save 2 - 10 -1, last in league).
My offense is solid as is my pitching but I have Ogando and J. Zimmerman who are both going to get shut down early. I need to bolster my staff and I am thinking about abandoning the saves race and focus on SPs and low ERA middle RPs.

Should I make this trade?

I get: K. Lohse, U. Jimenez, and Michael Morse.
I give: Kevin Gregg, N. Feliz, and Hunter Pence.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[roafw]

on the surface that is a solid trade.

The problem with booting saves is not that closer just get saves, they also lower your whip and era every week. So you may need to fill out your roster with some middle releivers that have very good ratios. If there are a lot of speculative closer adds, there may not be many good ratio middle releivers out there.

I have gone a similar route, and the exact opposite and did well in leagues doing both. In this case you are normally trading to put together an elite Offense that will win most cats, and then have a lots of streaming options in SP where you will win W and K every week, and get whip and era on really lucky weeks. (the opposite you have 1 elite starter and as many closers as possible so you win era, whip and saves most weeks).

Remember this means you will go 2-3 in the pitching cats every week, can your hitters make that up or not.

[Dobber]

Are you last in your league? And does finishing that way net you the top pick next spring? It may be time to do your strategy, tank, and retool for next year. But I don't think this is the way to go if you want to eke into the playoffs (if you have them)

[johnnymapman]

Great points. There are still quite a few solid MRs still out there. --> Clippard, Pestano, S. Romo, Ziegler, B. Bray.

I would be leaning towards Clippard and Romo (or Pestano).

My offense was sputtering out of the gate but has been performing as of late with Hanley finally getting it together. I am thinking Pence for Morse is essentially a wash (minus the average from Pence and a handful of SBs).

One huge factor is we count Losses as a pitching cat. So if I role more SPs out there every week I have a greater probability to get Losses as well.
I have been playing the "waiting for closers on the waiver wire" game but this has not worked this year. We have a 40 move limit and I am already sitting on 27 at ASB. I feel like I need to do something to defend last years crown.

I appreciate the advice.

[Gripnrip13]

Excellent question...

I'd load up on starters and try to take wins, innings pitched (if you count it as a category) and strikeouts every week. It is my understanding that Vogelsong, Ogando and Hellickson are eligible as relievers in Yahoo leagues. Plug them into your relief spots, add another frontline starter in Jiminez and you're going to win those categories every week. You'll also be competitive in ERA and WHIP in some matchups. I use Hellickson and Vogelsong right now as relievers in one of my own Yahoo leagues. The strategy has worked for me. I don't have the lowest ERA or WHIP, but I dominate IP, strikeouts and wins while punting saves every single week. At worst, I go 3-3 in pitching categories. I go 4-2 often enough and 5-1 on some occasions.

You're thinking "outside the box", but I see your logic. With Lincecum, Jiminez and Scherzer leading the way, that's a solid staff. I'd go for it.

[roafw]

if it is not a standard 5x5 (since you said they count losses) what are the cats. i assumed w, sv, k, whip, era. In that case you are booting 1 to dominate in 2 and struggle in 2, not a bad trade off, if you reasonably would not be pulling 2-3 or better this may not be the way to go. if you add only losses then you are looking at 2-4 most weeks, not a move i would be willing to make. since if you went all closers you would win sv, whip, era and losses, so 4-2.

after all of that, clippart has almost no chance of closing as a nat. They have storen closing and they are not going to shuffle for a slightly better closer. He has good stuff, so the ratios should stay good, and he does set up a lot, so his ip should be fine. To keep it in the nats family, bray would be the other guy i take a long look at since he has great stuff (he was a nats prospect that was traded a handful of years ago)

(i would note that i know fairly little about most middle releivers since they are no names in most fanasty leagues, so i really only know the converted starters and the top prospect wash outs... at the time when bray was traded for ryan wagner; as part of a bigger trade; it registered since wagner was veiwed as a possible future closer and bray was still a rotation guy)

[GoldenSeals]

This trade does work for you in that you get a solid Ubaldo Jimenez into your lineup. Michael Morse is a solid player who gives you some positional flexibility, however I think the current .306 average is a product of an inflated line drive rate. You look at his walk and strikeout rates and it tells me the .306 average is somewhat of a fluke.

While I think two closers is enough to compete in saves considering every other team just has three, you lose two guys in which you don't have to worry about with their walk rates being so volatile this year.

I'm not a big fan of loading up on starters, unless you're starters are bonafide, and when I say bonafide, I mean have been producing on a year in year out basis. So the young pitchers that I normally like would not qualify (Hellickson, Vogelsong, Carrasco, Scherzer). What I would do is start offering teams a package of Scherzer and Carrasco for a possible veteran starter. If you want to ensure yourself on winning the crown, this is the blueprint I would follow. Start offering those 2-1 trades, and then load up on high k, low whip middle relievers like Clippard, Romo, Pestano, Chapman, Mike Adams. You get two or three of these guys, and every week they'll give you the equivalent of a starter's numbers.

Just as an example, in my 18 team dynasty league I'm in, I am currently in 1st, and traded my Anthony Rizzo, Brett Anderson, Seth Smith and Jacob Turner to a rebuilding team for his Carlos Beltran, Aroldis Chapman, and Tyler Clippard. Our leagues count holds, and while I have quite a few starters, I only plug four of my six starters in. My starters - Cole Hamels, Justin Verlander, Dan Haren, Wandy Rodriguez. I also have Homer Bailty & Francisco Liriano on the bench. My closers are Chris Perez who isn't striking many batters out and Mariano. Also loaded on high K relievers that get holds in Matt Reynolds, Louis Coleman and Lance Lynn. Those three last week gave me 9 1/3 innings pitched, zero runs surrendered, 9.7 K/9, 1.9 BB/9, 5 K/BB, and two holds. See where I'm getting at?

Lastly, welcome to the board!!

[johnnymapman]

So I nixed the trade. With my scoring (W,L,S,K,ERA,WHIP) I couldn't quantify more than a consistent 2-4 week in pitching cats.
Again, really appreciate all the advice. Solid points from everyone.

djkiang,
I like the idea of 2 for 1 trades for a veteran arms.....then loading up on RPs like Clippard and Chapman.
For the time being I just picked up Isringhausen to speculate on the Mets closer situation. He almost has 300 for career....you have to figure we will get some shots to shut the door and get that magic number 300. I guess we will see...

Back to proposing some trades.

Glad to be aboard the board. Daily reader of the Daily Ramblings on both dobberbaseball and dobberhockey. I really should be sending you guys a check with 10% of my winnings from all the advice.....