Jordan Staal status for next season

[Pengwin7]

i have noticed several ppl say j staal... and i would agree that he def has the talent to "break out", but does anyone think he can break out in pitt? is everyone assuming he will be traded and be a number one guy? or am i missing something?

J.Staal had 50pts in 62games... that's 66pts if he played 82games.

A small part of me thinks that Pittsburgh could do very well if they stacked their top 6.
And even-though Kunitz - Malkin - Neal was dynamite all year... they still need a more balanced attack with wingers for Sid.
Crosby has always exhibited good chemistry with Kunitz - so I assume they'll go back to that to start '12-'13.

2012-2013
Kunitz-Crosby-xxxxx
xxxxx-Malkin-Neal

But yet... part of me still thinks the Penguins might be better suited to get J.Staal into the top 6. The only way I see that happening is by shifting Malkin (not Crosby). And that would be:

Kunitz-Crosby-xxxxx
Malkin-Staal-Neal

I think Malkin can be every bit as good a player on the wing as he is at center.
J.Staal & Crosby are both better suited (overall) as two-way centers.

In Summary:
Jordan Staal, 3rd line center = 50pts
Jordan Staal, 2nd line center = 60-70pts

[sparrowtrini]

2012-2013
Kunitz-Crosby-xxxxx
Kulimen-Malkin-Neal

You never know. Great chemistry back home as linemates. And friends. Could the RFA get moved to the Pens????

[newfcollins]

Don't we say that every year? Staal should be a top-six player. They haven't done it yet, so part of me doesn't believe they'll do it next year.

[lucifer316]

staal already gets the ice time of a top 6 forward hell on that team he gets the ice time of a top 3 forward and has for 4 seasons now

he put up that 66 point pace with kinda suspect linemates and i agree that 70 isnt out of the realm of possibility for him

what is intriguing about staal is what happens if he ever given real linemates could he push ppg not to mention this season where he got that 66 point pace he saw his pp time reduced by 1 min per game from last season

but dont ever worry about staal not getting ice time last two seasons he was 2nd on the team in atoi and es atoi and the two prior to that he was 3rd in both of those

i think 70 is a lock if he is healthy next year and i think the right linemates and back to 3 min on the pp again and he might break 85

[lucifer316]

Don't we say that every year? Staal should be a top-six player. They haven't done it yet, so part of me doesn't believe they'll do it next year.

staal always gets top 6 icetime he just hasnt gotten top linemates

and he has managed to increase his production by about .1 per game for 3 years now he went from .6 to .71 to .81

less than 40 players that played 50 or more games this season put up .81 ppg

so he is producing as a top 6 player as well

[newfcollins]

I was a unclear in my post. I think he's got ton of potential and should be able to get 65-70 points. I'm not disagreeing with anyone there.

What I meant was that every off-season, we say he should be playing with Crosby or Malkin. And every season, it doesn't happen (at least not with enough frequency). So I don't hold out a lot of faith that will happen next year.

As for time on ice, it's hard to use the last two seasons as a barometer. Crosby has played 63 games the last two years combined. Malkin played most of this year, but missed half a season before that. So Staal should be high up on the list for average ice time, since he's a centre, and the top two centres on the team are frequently injured. If Plekanec and Desharnais missed a lot of time, I'm pretty sure Eller's average time on ice would increase as well.

Also, 10% of Staal's ice time is killing penalties, so it's not exactly a lot of scoring chances coming that way.

Would he still be getting as much ice time if Crosby and Malkin were playing a full season? That's the $10,000 question when you're talking about time on ice.

[lucifer316]

he managed to pace 66 without playing with crosby or malkin not exactly crappy

also i didnt say he was among the top in icetime i said 2nd for the last two seasons and 3rd the two seasons prior to that

thats not among centers on that team thats among forwards on that team

and yes he does see short handed ice time but as i also pointed out he was 2nd two years running in even strength ice time and 3rd the two prior in even strength ice time

also he gets some pp ice time as well it dropped this season but he saw 2 min per game this season and 3 the season prior

again when i posted where he ranked on the team in ice time it was among all pens forwards not centers

he averaged 20:03 atoi this past season which was 27th in the league among forwards and his even strength per game was good for 44th in the league among forwards

to compare he had 15:25 es 2:38 sh 1:59 pp for 20:03 per game

giroux had 15:23 es 2:14 sh 3:55 pp for 21:32 per game

staal isnt doing as terrible as people think ice time wise but could use more on the pp and some better linemates

[newfcollins]

Again, that's my point about ice time. He's a centre. Crosby and Malkin are centres. When they are out of the lineup, Staal sees more ice time. Take out Crosby's 20 minutes a game (or whatever he gets), and Staal is going to eat up some of those minutes.

As for better linemates, that has yet to be seen. He hasn't played with Malkin and Crosby for any consistent amount of time. And I don't see why the Pens would change that next year.

[lucifer316]

lets try this one more time

the last 2 seasons staal has been second on the team in icetime among forwards the 2 seasons prior to that he was 3rd on the team in ice time among forwards

now the first season of that 4 season span 77 82 and 82 were the games crosby malkin and staal played and staal was 3rd among forwards in ice time so when healthy staal still was in the top 3 on that team in ice time center or not

[blayze]

J. Staal is never going to "break out"... I always find it puzzling when people talk about him like he's suddenly going to drop 70-80 points

He will always be a 45-55 point guy on the Pens... his role is clearly defined on that team, so the opportunity will never be there, even when Crosby is out

And to be honest even though I think Staal is one of the sickest 2 way players in the game (and one of the most clutch), I don't think he has the offensive talent to be a 70-80 point guy even if he had the opportunity.

[Maaaasquito]

J.Staal had 50pts in 62games... that's 66pts if he played 82games.

A small part of me thinks that Pittsburgh could do very well if they stacked their top 6.
And even-though Kunitz - Malkin - Neal was dynamite all year... they still need a more balanced attack with wingers for Sid.
Crosby has always exhibited good chemistry with Kunitz - so I assume they'll go back to that to start '12-'13.

2012-2013
Kunitz-Crosby-xxxxx
xxxxx-Malkin-Neal

But yet... part of me still thinks the Penguins might be better suited to get J.Staal into the top 6. The only way I see that happening is by shifting Malkin (not Crosby). And that would be:

Kunitz-Crosby-xxxxx
Malkin-Staal-Neal

I think Malkin can be every bit as good a player on the wing as he is at center.
J.Staal & Crosby are both better suited (overall) as two-way centers.

In Summary:
Jordan Staal, 3rd line center = 50pts
Jordan Staal, 2nd line center = 60-70pts

One thing that you also need to take into account is that the 50 points in 62 games was with Crosby out of the line up too, so I think that opened up a bit of scoring for Staal to pick up some extra points. (Basically Staal filled in the spot and took over the points that Crosby would have scored)

With Crosby in the line up, Staal's role kinda gets relegated to more of a defensive one.

So I don't think it's a fair statement to say that he's more than a 60+ pointer with Crosby in the line up... (the question of point scarcity comes into mind)

Stats from this year,

Staal with Crosby in line up 14 in 22 (0.64) along with 47 SOG (2.14).
Staal without Crosby in line up 36 in 40 (0.9) along with 102 SOG (2.55).

At the end of the day, you can't have Crosby and Malkin reel off 100 point seasons, and have Neal get 80+ and get Staal 65+ and get Kunitz 60+ and Letang 50+, it's just doesn't happen that way, it's not NHL 12.

[Ross The Boss Palmer]

J. Staal is never going to "break out"... I always find it puzzling when people talk about him like he's suddenly going to drop 70-80 points

He will always be a 45-55 point guy on the Pens... his role is clearly defined on that team, so the opportunity will never be there, even when Crosby is out

And to be honest even though I think Staal is one of the sickest 2 way players in the game (and one of the most clutch), I don't think he has the offensive talent to be a 70-80 point guy even if he had the opportunity.

I have to politely disagree. Although I am not sure he will ever get there, Staal has a great shot when the puck is properly put in his wheelhouse, and has good vision as well. I have always felt he has the upside of 80, but think he needs either better linesmates and/or to not be matched against top lines to get there. However, I don't think either of those things will happen, at least with how their forward corps is structured now.

[JiminyCrickets!]

Food for thought, Jordan Staal has 36pts in his last 31 games.
Playing with tyler kennedy and dupuis...


38 in 31.5......

[blayze]

Food for thought, Jordan Staal has 36pts in his last 31 games.
Playing with tyler kennedy and dupuis...


38 in 31.5......

So does Dupuis... I guess we should pencil him in for 70-80 next year as well

[blayze]

I have to politely disagree. Although I am not sure he will ever get there, Staal has a great shot when the puck is properly put in his wheelhouse, and has good vision as well. I have always felt he has the upside of 80, but think he needs either better linesmates and/or to not be matched against top lines to get there. However, I don't think either of those things will happen, at least with how their forward corps is structure now.

Don't get me wrong, Staal's no slouch offensively... he does have a lethal shot, but even if given the opportunity, I don't see him as having the tools to get to the 80 upside you have set for him... Neal barely hit 80 this season playing with Malkin.

It's all moot anyway, cause:
1) Staal will never have the opportunity given his role as a 2 way player and the Penguins depth
2) Staal will never play a full healthy season