Nicklas Backstrom (Washington) - Head?

[TheRook]

Rook, agreed. Neither of us are doing that. I never said Backstrom (or any NHLer) shouldn't leave the game or miss time if diagnosed with a concussion. My comments/opinion are based on the "length" of time an NHL player tends to miss THESE DAYS and in some cases there's "no timetable".

I agree that the timelines today may be exaggerated and i would like to see these guys come back much sooner. I think we all want that. I think its a Catch 22 situation sometimes. The NHL has lost some star players the last couple years. The NHL needs these players in the lineup to sell the game. The question is, will they be at the top of their game if they arent 100%. At the same time it looks bad to the non fan seeing these guys out for so long. If they come back and get reinjured does that look worse from a game marketing perspective than keeping them out longer than they think may be necessary?

Again, I agree. There is NO DOUBT in my mind the NHL is taking the "cautious approach" with these concussions. But that's putting it lightly IMO. As for the long-term thing, Crosby sat out for almost a full year before returning and then had to leave again a few weeks later. Granted, some of that could be due to the vertebrae issue.

Indeed. The thing I keep coming back to is the "extreme side" and at what point is it overkill?

Another valid point. But while breakthroughs and research in brain injuries continue to evolve, it shouldn't mean the NHL shuts their players down because of the unknown. I don't think that is a realistic answer.

It may not be a realistic answer but when faced with the unknown one tends to take the more cautious approach. Its human nature. We may come to find out its too cautious but when it comes to the health of people they are more likely to go to the cautious extreme rather than give the green light.

When does it end though? If the NHL is forming the habit of shutting down players (and stars) for long periods of time, how is that good for the league and acceptable value for the fans? There needs to be a balance between players safety and product value and one shouldn't be more extreme than the other. I understand be cautious, but if the NHL is going to be THAT cautious, why not just wrap all the players in bubble wrap and/or remove contact altogether?

Anytime you see a situation go to an extreme it usually doesnt stay there but it usually has to go completely to the extreme before it starts to normalize. We might have to deal with these extended vacations for the next couple years before it starts to swing the other direction.

Most likely they will come out with some 'special' pads or helmet (not saying it wont help) that starts to swing the pendulum in the other direction. Without something to market a change the extremity may continue. They need something to appease the scrutiny. I dont think you will see players all of a sudden coming back sooner than previously concussed players because then they will be questioned on why the difference if nothing has changed.

I don't see the number of diagnosed concussions decreasing anytime soon - if anything I see them continuing to increase. I think the NHL has come under scrutiny for some unfortunate events that that happened over the summer. I also think the NHL is very sensitive to the mainstream media's public lynching over fighting in the game. These situations combined may have caused the league to "overcompensate" in attempts to publicly endorse the safety of their players. And in my opinion, I don't think that's the right thing to do.

The 'C' word used to be a 'dont ask, dont tell' type of situation from both the players and the team. I dont know if the number of concussions will actually increase or if ever injury will now require a concussion test. That would make the statistics increase but did the actual number of concussions increase?

I think you are dead on that the NHL has come under scrutiny by both some key players getting concussed and the fighting situation. Because of this, they are trying very hard to cya themselves and go to the extreme.

Rook, finally, I want you to know how refreshing it is to be able to discuss a "passionate" topic in a classy manner. Reflects well on you. Thank you.

We have to be careful sometimes to not take what someone wrote as a literal statement but look harder for the meaning of what was said. Its easy to nitpick statements and take them out of context. Its harder and harder to do in a digital world sometimes. We tend to react quicker than we should and instead of simply asking the person what they meant we tend to go on the defensive or offensive depending on their personality.

No matter what anyone thinks, none of us are experts. We can learn a lot from understanding another persons point of view. Often times it educates us from what they wrote or by challenging us to look at things from a different perspective.

[TheRook]

Another thing i meant to mention...

Its hard to compare whats happening in other sports because who knows who is right? With concussions the effects are often down the road. In 5 years the NFL could be saying the NHL did it right and we should have taken that approach.

They could also come back in 5 years and say the NHL didnt need to take that approach. Its something we will probably never know because the current and long term effects of a concussion arent easily measured like a broken bone or sprained ankle.

That doesnt stop us as fans of making the comparison because we can.

[Kickerz]

One league has gauranteed contracts, the other does not. One league has a major PR campaign for player safety, the other league's is not quite as developped. Which league has the greater likelyhood of a player saying "I'm fine", when he isn't?

[Yardsale]

Chipping in here.

NFL/NHL are very different arenas.

The $ disparity is obvious.

Player incentives and other financial pressures effect an environment unsympathetic to injury. It's peer pressure on steroids.

[fungchen3]

Ah, Kickerz, now we're getting somewhere. I think we're getting closer to the truth of the situation. For the record, I agree 100% with your points, but I don't agree with the NHL's handling.

One league has gauranteed contracts, the other does not.

Good point. An NFL player has an "incentive" to play when they feel better (or feel good enough to play) and and NHL player has an "incentive" to take it to extremes and be extra-cautious even if it means missing 4 months, 6 months or a year. For arguments sake, I'd say maybe both are extremes and the "right" decision is somewhere in the middle. But I look at it this way - a "player" should take the same approach whether they have guaranteed money or not. I know it's not the reality but it's my opinion. I wonder if Backstrom would be back playing if wasn't cashing six figures ever 2 weeks while he's chilling in Sweden?

One league has a major PR campaign for player safety, the other league's is not quite as developped.

This is a VERY important point. I've eluded to the point (and I firmly believe it) that much of this "precaution" is all theatre directed by the NHL to reinforce a public persona of "player safety" to counteract the reality of a physical and violent sport where fighting is (as of now) permitted. Like you said, "a major PR campaign". This point cannot be overlooked.

Which league has the greater likelyhood of a player saying "I'm fine", when he isn't?

Well, this honestly depends on the player. But, the NHL player is "protected financially" while the NFL player is not. So if it's about money, the NHL player can easily take the safe route without losing a penny. BUT, I wonder if this isn't even a "player thing" at this point? For all we know, Backstrom could be screaming from the roof tops, "I'M FINE!!" and the Caps/NHL could be saying, "No you're not. Go spend a few weeks in Sweden just to be EXTRA fine." Regardless, if the NHL or the players are doing this, they should slash ticket prices as well. Can't have it both ways.

I just find it extremely hard to believe that an NFL player could be diagnosed with a "severe concussion" and be on the field 2 weeks later and an NHL player could be diagnosed with "concussion-like symptoms" and miss MONTHS. This just doesn't make common sense to me.

[Username]

One league has gauranteed contracts, the other does not. One league has a major PR campaign for player safety, the other league's is not quite as developped. Which league has the greater likelyhood of a player saying "I'm fine", when he isn't?

This is the exact reason why NFL players return from injury so quickly or play through it, not because they're somehow tougher than hockey players.

If I were an owner paying millions of dollars to my star player, I'd want him to rest until he's fully healthy instead of trying to play though it and possibly making it worse.

[wendelclark17]

One league has gauranteed contracts, the other does not. One league has a major PR campaign for player safety, the other league's is not quite as developped. Which league has the greater likelyhood of a player saying "I'm fine", when he isn't?

this is the single biggest factor in my opinion. When one guy HAS to play to get paid and one guy doesnt its obviously going to elicit different responses and courses of action.

[Barclay]

Just a quick aside...Nicklas Backstrom has suffered from chronic migraines in the past.
Migraines are an issue of consecutive vasodilation and vasoconstriction of cranial arteries, otherwise known as a neurovascular condition. This part of his clinical history is, in my medical experience, probably compounding the issue here. A hit to the head may exacerbate the nausea, headaches, and visual disturbance that accompany his chronic condition. Sure there is medication for migraines, but it doesn't fix the condition, it just helps the symptom temporarily.

So in my opinion when you combine his clinical history with an elbow to the jaw, it could help explain the severity of his injury.

[wendelclark17]

Just a quick aside...Nicklas Backstrom has suffered from chronic migraines in the past.
Migraines are an issue of consecutive vasodilation and vasoconstriction of cranial arteries, otherwise known as a neurovascular condition. This part of his clinical history is, in my medical experience, probably compounding the issue here. A hit to the head may exacerbate the nausea, headaches, and visual disturbance that accompany his chronic condition. Sure there is medication for migraines, but it doesn't fix the condition, it just helps the symptom temporarily.

So in my opinion when you combine his clinical history with an elbow to the jaw, it could help explain the severity of his injury.

a very good point and the same applies for Letang as well. He also has a history of migraines.

[Dutch]

in addition to kickerz comment,

it's also why one person with paid sick days is more often sick than one person without paid sick days.

seriously fungchen, I think youre completely out to lunch on this subject.

even if he came back to play cause he felt fine. This could result in him dying at age 42 rather than a normal life expectency, because he "felt fine" but in reality he wasn't .

[fungchen3]

even if he came back to play cause he felt fine. This could result in him dying at age 42 rather than a normal life expectency, because he "felt fine" but in reality he wasn't .

Dutch, how can you make such a heavy-handed and drastic comment? Roenick said he had about 13 concussions in his career and played through most of them. Eric Lindros had a handful of the worst concussions we've ever seen in the game. Both of these players are fine.

I mean, is it POSSIBLE that a concussion someone receives today hurts them long-term? Of course. They studied Probert and Boogaard's brains and said the reoccurring trauma had caused some irreversible effects in both players. But these were guy taking hits and punches to the face over the course of many years at different levels of hockey. And again, I'm not saying "don't miss time", I'm saying, "6 or 8 months seems VERY extreme IMO."

Neither of us are experts on the topic, but I think you're taking it to extremes. If these "concussions" are so life-threatening and immobilizing, why not just fold the NHL, NFL, MMA and pro Boxing? Because concussions happen ALL THE TIME in all of these sports - the NHL is just the only one that has suddenly decided to shut their players down for months or a year from them. That doesn't seem the least bit extreme to you?

And to your initial point - all the players in the 70s, 80s and probably 90s, received concussions and "had their bell rung" MANY times. Why aren't all of them dropping like flies and dying on the spot at age 42, 52 or 62?

I know where you stand on the issue and I respect your opinion. And while I agree with some of your views, I still disagree with the way they're "currently" being handled in the NHL.

[Filadelphia]

I'm telling you, this "missing MONTHS at a time with a concussion" stuff is getting old quick.

I got my 5th concussion two weeks ago. I feel 100% at rest, but I can't even be on the treadmill at 5mph for more than 10 minutes without getting headaches and a dizzy feeling. Maybe some players like Backstrom sit out for a while because they can't jog, let alone fully exert themselves.


Every concussion is different. I'm not Backstrom so I don't know every detail of how he's feeling. I don't know how Roenick felt either. Maybe Roenick's were much less severe. Maybe his body reacted to them better. Maybe players now are overly cautious and sit out for too long. Doctors don't even know so I don't a bunch of fans do. I'm just saying it's possible that he can't exercise.

[Dutch]

That doesn't seem the least bit extreme to you?

And to your initial point - all the players in the 70s, 80s and probably 90s, received concussions and "had their bell rung" MANY times. Why aren't all of them dropping like flies and dying on the spot at age 42, 52 or 62?

no I find it smart

the players currently in the 70's/80's/90's without a doubt would have had concussions, but at the time they played hockey, things didn't move as fast as they do now, and don't have the equipment like they do now.

So the extent of the concussion may have been different in that era, although that is pure speculation.

And since you brought up boxing/mma, I may as well voice my opinion on that too.

They should forbid those sports, since they're not sports, but rather some barbaric ridiculous punching in eachothers face.

Why that EVER became a sport is beyond me.

[Chico Resch]

And the "for your entertainment purposes" act it old and over-dramatic. These guys are pro athletes and entertainers. Injuries are part of the job - it's why they get paid those salaries. I understand missing some time and what not but over the last couple years it seems like every "head shot" automatically = months away from the game. Where was that before? Where is it in the NFL?

Fung does bring up a good point. We do know more now than before, but is the NHL trigger happy on "concussions"? Has the game changed SO MUCH in the past 2 years that concussions are up (seemingly) 500%?

[Kickerz]

no I find it smart

the players currently in the 70's/80's/90's without a doubt would have had concussions, but at the time they played hockey, things didn't move as fast as they do now, and don't have the equipment like they do now.

So the extent of the concussion may have been different in that era, although that is pure speculation.

And since you brought up boxing/mma, I may as well voice my opinion on that too.

They should forbid those sports, since they're not sports, but rather some barbaric ridiculous punching in eachothers face.

Why that EVER became a sport is beyond me.

Dutch, fighting is/was the first ever and original sport. It is pretty much sport in its truest form.