My top 50 Dmen in a points-only keeper league

[SeaDawg]

For those who care (and some who don't), here is my personal ranking of dmen in a points-only keeper league. Unlike Dobber's ranking, I don't consider any stats besides points and the playoffs are not factored into my ranking. Simply put, I'd trade anyone on the list straight up for anyone higher on the list.

I figured some of you might want to compare my list to yours as you are preparing for any upcoming drafts. Enjoy.

1. Drew Doughty
2. Mike Green
3. Keith Yandle
4. Kris Letang
5. P.K. Subban
6. Erik Karlsson
7. Duncan Keith
8. Alex Goligoski
9. Kevin Shattenkirk
10. Cam Fowler
11. Tobias Enstrom
12. Lubomir Visnovsky
13. Dustin Byfuglien
14. John Carlson
15. Alex Pietrangelo
16. Alexander Edler
17. James Wisniewski
18. Shea Weber
19. Tyler Myers
20. Dan Boyle
21. Ryan Whitney
22. Jack Johnson
23. David Rundblad
24. Brent Burns
25. Erik Johnson
26. Mark Streit
27. Dion Phaneuf
28. Niklas Kronwall
29. Brian Campbell
30. Christian Ehrhoff
31. Zdeno Chara
32. Adam Larsson
33. Matt Carle
34. Ryan Suter
35. Brent Seabrook
36. Stefan Elliott
37. Brendan Smith
38. Victor Hedman
39. Travis Hamonic
40. Jamie McBain
41. Zach Bogosian
42. Mark Giordano
43. Chris Pronger
44. Joni Pitkanen
45. Jonathan Blum
46. Dimitri Kulikov
47. Oliver Ekman-Larsson
48. Nicklas Lidstrom
49. John-Michael Liles
50. Tomas Kaberle

[Pengwin7]

1. Drew Doughty
2. Mike Green
3. Keith Yandle
4. Kris Letang
5. P.K. Subban
6. Erik Karlsson
7. Duncan Keith
8. Alex Goligoski
9. Kevin Shattenkirk
10. Cam Fowler
11. Tobias Enstrom
12. Lubomir Visnovsky
13. Dustin Byfuglien
14. John Carlson
15. Alex Pietrangelo
16. Alexander Edler
17. James Wisniewski
18. Shea Weber
19. Tyler Myers
20. Dan Boyle
21. Ryan Whitney
22. Jack Johnson
23. David Rundblad
24. Brent Burns
25. Erik Johnson
26. Mark Streit
27. Dion Phaneuf
28. Niklas Kronwall
29. Brian Campbell
30. Christian Ehrhoff
31. Zdeno Chara
32. Adam Larsson
33. Matt Carle
34. Ryan Suter
35. Brent Seabrook
36. Stefan Elliott
37. Brendan Smith
38. Victor Hedman
39. Travis Hamonic
40. Jamie McBain
41. Zach Bogosian
42. Mark Giordano
43. Chris Pronger
44. Joni Pitkanen
45. Jonathan Blum
46. Dimitri Kulikov
47. Oliver Ekman-Larsson
48. Nicklas Lidstrom
49. John-Michael Liles
50. Tomas Kaberle

Love this list, so I'll just add some colour for my own reflection.

GREEN BOLD - I'd move these guys 10+ spots higher.
Green non-bold - I'd move these guys 5-10 spots higher.
Red non-bold - I'd move these guy 5-10 spots lower.
RED BOLD - I'd move these guys 10+ spots lower.

[ddp]

I find it interesting you would trade Nic Lidstrom for 47 other dmen. It all depends on your current team's situation if contending or not...but if I'm contending its a joke to move him for some of the names above him. (GREAT IDEA for a thread tho!!)

1. Mike Green
2. Drew Doughty
3. Keith Yandle
4. P.K. Subban
5. Kris Letang
6. Dan Boyle
7. Duncan Keith
8. Tobias Enstrom
9. Shea Weber
10. Alex Goligoski
11. Alex Pietrangelo
12. Lubomir Visnovsky
13. Dustin Byfuglien
14. Brent Burns
15. Cam Fowler
16. Erik Karlsson
17. Niklas Kronwall
18. James Wisniewski
19. Tyler Myers
20. Kevin Shattenkirk
21. John Carlson
22. Nicklas Lidstrom
23. Ryan Whitney
24. Alexander Edler
25. Erik Johnson
26. Mark Streit
27. Tomas Kaberle
28. David Rundblad
29. Brian Campbell
30. Christian Ehrhoff
31. Zdeno Chara
32. Adam Larsson
33. Matt Carle
34. Ryan Suter
35. Brent Seabrook
36. Stefan Elliott
37. Brendan Smith
38. Victor Hedman
39. Travis Hamonic
40. Jamie McBain
41. Zach Bogosian
42. Mark Giordano
43. Chris Pronger
44. Joni Pitkanen
45. Jonathan Blum
46. Dimitri Kulikov
47. Oliver Ekman-Larsson
48. Jack Johnson
49. John-Michael Liles
50. Dion Phaneuf
__________________

[yougo]

For those who care (and some who don't), here is my personal ranking of dmen in a points-only keeper league. Unlike Dobber's ranking, I don't consider any stats besides points and the playoffs are not factored into my ranking. Simply put, I'd trade anyone on the list straight up for anyone higher on the list.

I figured some of you might want to compare my list to yours as you are preparing for any upcoming drafts. Enjoy.

1. Drew Doughty
2. Mike Green
3. Keith Yandle
4. Kris Letang
5. P.K. Subban
6. Erik Karlsson
7. Duncan Keith
8. Alex Goligoski
9. Kevin Shattenkirk
10. Cam Fowler
11. Tobias Enstrom
12. Lubomir Visnovsky
13. Dustin Byfuglien
14. John Carlson
15. Alex Pietrangelo
16. Alexander Edler
17. James Wisniewski
18. Shea Weber
19. Tyler Myers
20. Dan Boyle
21. Ryan Whitney
22. Jack Johnson
23. David Rundblad
24. Brent Burns
25. Erik Johnson
26. Mark Streit
27. Dion Phaneuf
28. Niklas Kronwall
29. Brian Campbell
30. Christian Ehrhoff
31. Zdeno Chara
32. Adam Larsson
33. Matt Carle
34. Ryan Suter
35. Brent Seabrook
36. Stefan Elliott
37. Brendan Smith
38. Victor Hedman
39. Travis Hamonic
40. Jamie McBain
41. Zach Bogosian
42. Mark Giordano
43. Chris Pronger
44. Joni Pitkanen
45. Jonathan Blum
46. Dimitri Kulikov
47. Oliver Ekman-Larsson
48. Nicklas Lidstrom
49. John-Michael Liles
50. Tomas Kaberle

Great job. I like a lot of the work you put in there but... no Andrei Markov? The injury argument is not a good one when you consider that Streit is on your list. Bogosian ahead of Markov?

If Healthy, Markov is easily in the top 10 in points for defeseman. Even not healthy, he will produce in 30 games more than Bogosian in one season. IMO he is the biggest miss of your list.

[SeaDawg]

I find it interesting you would trade Nic Lidstrom for 47 other dmen. It all depends on your current team's situation if contending or not...but if I'm contending its a joke to move him for some of the names above him. (GREAT IDEA for a thread tho!!)

yeah, Lidstrom is a tough one. He will likely be top 5 in scoring this coming season, but I think this is his last year. I wouldn't sacrifice 10 years of having a kid like Elliott for one year with Lidstrom (in a keeper league), unless of course Lidstrom was guaranteed to bring me a championship. Most of the time that is difficult to know. Assuming Lidstrom scores 55 pts and a kid like Elliott scores 35. Will 20 pts win the Championship in most cases? Maybe, maybe not.

[SeaDawg]

Great job. I like a lot of the work you put in there but... no Andrei Markov? The injury argument is not a good one when you consider that Streit is on your list. Bogosian ahead of Markov?

If Healthy, Markov is easily in the top 10 in points for defeseman. Even not healthy, he will produce in 30 games more than Bogosian in one season. IMO he is the biggest miss of your list.

Damn, I knew I'd make mistakes. Markov is merely an oversight. I started my list by coping and pasting from another source, and perhaps because he missed nearly the entire season, Markov wasn't on the original list. I'd probably put him just above Lidstrom on my list.

[yougo]

Damn, I knew I'd make mistakes. Markov is merely an oversight. I started my list by coping and pasting from another source, and perhaps because he missed nearly the entire season, Markov wasn't on the original list. I'd probably put him just above Lidstrom on my list.

Hehe! Like I said in the introduction of my comment : good job. Even if you forgot someone, your list is very good. Funny how Mike Green dropped in the minds of a lot of people, at the start of last season he was almost untradable. You have Doughty ranked ahead of him even thought Doughty had a relatively average season.

[SeaDawg]

Hehe! Like I said in the introduction of my comment : good job. Even if you forgot someone, your list is very good. Funny how Mike Green dropped in the minds of a lot of people, at the start of last season he was almost untradable. You have Doughty ranked ahead of him even thought Doughty had a relatively average season.

Green and Doughty are close. Green likely has a higher upside, but with injuries and Carlson in the picture, I put Doughty ahead of him. I'm not necessarily buying that Green will be traded, though it is somewhat possible and on another team, I don't know if he can put up 70 pts again. Put it this way, if Doughty and Green were swapped for each other, not many would rank Green ahead of Doughty.

[ddp]

yeah, Lidstrom is a tough one. He will likely be top 5 in scoring this coming season, but I think this is his last year. I wouldn't sacrifice 10 years of having a kid like Elliott for one year with Lidstrom (in a keeper league), unless of course Lidstrom was guaranteed to bring me a championship. Most of the time that is difficult to know. Assuming Lidstrom scores 55 pts and a kid like Elliott scores 35. Will 20 pts win the Championship in most cases? Maybe, maybe not.

The way I see Seadawg is if your in a limited keeper like I am...you will always find enough bogosians down the line to replace Lidstrom when the time comes. Every year I have 3or4 brutally tough drops...when he retires then bye bye and in comes one of those hard drops.

[SeaDawg]

yeah, I didn't really specify that this was for full keeper leagues, but that's what I had in mind when compiling my list, considering most of my leagues are full keepers.

[Princeton]

Fantastic list. Great work.

Considering my league is purely a keeper and 18 teams deep with 6-8 d on every team, this list is extremely helpful.

Also was nice to see that all 6 of my guys made the top 50 with 3 of them landing in the top 15.

[ovi42]

I've seen Doughty ahead of Green in a few points-only threads. I don't get that at all. Until Doughty actually scores 70 points in a season(he hasn't even come close to sniffing that) then i don't see how he jumps over Green. And i don't buy the Carlson argument at all. Green is far a superior offensive talent. Carlson is a far superior all over Dman(which doesnt help in fantasy). I just don't buy that Doughty is a better fantasy option than Green. It makes no sense to me.

[Luffy D Monkey]

I see you've got adam larsson ranked pretty highly. is he that good? Is he an offensive d-man?

[SeaDawg]

I've seen Doughty ahead of Green in a few points-only threads. I don't get that at all. Until Doughty actually scores 70 points in a season(he hasn't even come close to sniffing that) then i don't see how he jumps over Green. And i don't buy the Carlson argument at all. Green is far a superior offensive talent. Carlson is a far superior all over Dman(which doesnt help in fantasy). I just don't buy that Doughty is a better fantasy option than Green. It makes no sense to me.

well, like I said, they are close. I can't speak for everyone, but I give Doughty an edge because Green has proven to be a bit fragile and I don't think Doughty has peaked yet. I know Green has hit 70, but I'm not sure if he will do it again. I think he is too injury-prone and that Washington has changed their game a bit. Green can, and likely will, still put up 65 pts, but I don't know if he passes 70 again.

As for Carlson, I don't think he overtakes Green while Green is on the team. However, there is a small chance that Washington deals Green when is contract is about to expire. They have some big contracts up for renewal soon and it will be hard to afford everyone. I could see them dealing Green and giving Carlson the #1 spot. If they didn't have Carlson around, no way Green would ever be dealt.

All that to say, the difference between Green and Doughty isn't a lot, and in another few weeks I might change my mind on the ranking. They are that close, but atm I give the edge to Doughty.

[SeaDawg]

I see you've got adam larsson ranked pretty highly. is he that good? Is he an offensive d-man?

Yes, he is that good, imo. I wanted to put him higher, but simply can't justify that right now. I've followed Larsson closely for 3+ years now. I've watched him play live multiple times and on tv many more times. I watched him develop from a 16 year old playing on the ice with Hedman, Rundblad, Karlsson, Erixon, and OEL, and I am convinced that he is the best of the bunch. He is a future Norris Trophy candidate. His overall game is what will make him elite and why I think he is the best of the great Swedish dmen to have been drafted recently. His offensive game is underrated, and I'd personally put him behind only Karlsson in terms of his offense.

I also absolutely love the opportunity he will get in New Jersey. Unlike OEL, who has Yandle ahead of him, he is the top guy in New Jersey and will be that for a long time. I think people will be surprised at how quickly Larsson adjusts to the NHL and the type of offensive numbers he eventually puts up. I wouldn't expect more than 35 pts in his rookie year, but long-term he has the potential to put up 55 pts.