Need help to create a good league

[Bobino]

Hi all,

Here is my situation. I'm a big hockey fan and fantasy player. I started to involve my friends from school around 20 years ago (wow, I just realized how long my pool has been running!). Keep in mind that the hockey IQ of that group goes from the best to the worst. We are 2-3 real fantasy guys, the middle pack are big home team fan, but that’s it… and the last 2-3 are just following the group and like the social part of it.

I started with bracket pools 20 years ago… then switch to live draft pool. The only moves we were able to do is to switch a player with a free agent one or two times a year… really basic ! (straight points)
I said last season was my last as an organizer. I know this is the only pool for a lot of my friends and they really like it, but on my side… it’s pretty boring. I need more action!

So, the reason I need you help/suggestion is that I’m thinking to bring them to the next level. What kind of league do you suggest, keeping in mind the different levels of hockey knowledge in our group?

I would like to show them how nice are the real fantasy pools, with keepers and different stats, etc. Should I involve trades? I don’t want to hurt the worst poolers too much, but I’m ok to losing the 2-3 who just don’t know enough hockey to do any Fantasy.

What kind of stats categories would fit good for everybody, at least for a first season… how many players, positions, keepers, etc

Any advice would really be appreciate, I want to start this on the right track

I’m thinking of using Yahoo or ESPN, but I think Yahoo would be the easiest one.

Thanks !

[Shake]

Well first off, if you are unsure of level of owner knowledge and also what cats to use, I would stay away from a keeper league for the first year.

I would do a one year league, basic set up, and let the league owners get a feel for this type of settings. Non keeper.

Get you're feet wet , then in year 2 or maybe even year 3 go to a keeper format ( limited keeper) Maybe keep 5 per team.

Do you want H2H or a roto setting?

[Vancityguy]

Agreed, a one year pool before moving into a keeper would be a good idea. It takes 2 seasons or so for people to really get a feel of player value, trade value, pick value, etc.

[mister_mcgoo]

i don't agree fully Shake, I think even if its a group of buddies with varying hockey IQs you can get them all on board if you take baby steps...here's what I would do Bobino:

1)introduce it as a keeper but do so in a graduated fashion...lay it out as a league that will evolve each year according to feedback from the GMs (this is HUGE i think, if you put the power in the hands of the GMs to decide the future of their league they'll be behind it 100% because they're a part of it)
2)make it clear that the goal is to evolve it slowly from a simple format to something more sophisticated...maybe decide that your final # of categories is going to be 10, or 8 or whatever, but that you will start with just Pts, W and SOs (because that's what everyone is familiar with), and that you'll add a cat (or 2) a year
3)since they are used to 1 yr leagues, make it a limited keeper to start (like keep 3 or keep 5) and slowly increase it to whatever your target keeper number is.
4)personal preference but I love H2H simply because of the rivalries and smack talk and showdowns that it creates, that might be a good way to get a buncha buddies involved quickly
5)take advantage of cross-sports ties...for example, I run a league that does H2H pts (the cats are all weighted and you get a certain amount of pts in each). For those into Fantasy Football, this is a familiar paradigm and may help to get people on board


good luck dude

[Ritchierich]

Depending on your poolies it is tough to do too much. If you decide to do a one year league here are a few things that we do in ours to make it more exciting. It does require a little more work, but not a crazy amount.
1. We make D-men goals worth 2 points so it equals them out somewhat - which comes into play with #2.
2. We are allowed to drop one player a week and pick up any player not currently on a team. This is great for injuries, but also for breakout players. People who follow it more closely have a big advantage.
3. We allow trades up to the trade deadline - must be approved. same number of players involved.
4. We have bounced back and forth between team goalies and individual goalies. This year we had individual but you could have up to 2 but could have none. This allowed us to trade players for goalies.

A few other scoring changes, but all really simple. I like it cause it lets those who are into it get more involved, and the casual person to do their own thing.
This year we also had monthly winners so that the people that are out of the running still have something to play for.

[Bobino]

Wow! Thanks for the great and quick replies guys!

That is reallly helping me to start figuring out what kind of pool I want.

Keeper: I think I'll make it limited keeper (3) just because I think that if you allow trades, you need to have some keepers so that the trades at the end of the years still makes sense. You don't want a GM with no chance to win to give all of is best players to his buddy... I know that I can monitor the trades, but still...

I'm not a big fan of H2H, and I'm afraid that this would involve a little bit more work for the GM's to prepare for their next week. I might be wrong here, you can correct me.

Number of players? I'm thinking of 6F,3D,1G. Is this basic? Should we take extra players (bench) or this will be to complicated to start? If not...maybe a injured spot I guess. I like the idea of giving 2pts for a goal by a D-men... or 1.5 pts for any G or A. One drop max per week is also a good idea to limit the advantage of the full time GMs.

Thanks again!

[hockeyplayer168]

I'm not a big fan of H2H, and I'm afraid that this would involve a little bit more work for the GM's to prepare for their next week. I might be wrong here, you can correct me.

My league is made of a few knowledgeable GMs and about 8-9 casual hockey fans, mostly Twin Cities based.

My league is turning keeper this year and we are also dropping Roto in favor of H2H. We are hoping that it will increase more interest throughout the season due to rivalries and avoiding the monotony of daily updates slowly creeping through the whole year. I think weekly H2H will be less work for the lazier owners. Also, we are using playoffs in order to give the middle pack owners more of a shot at winning.

Also, we are keeping the number of keeper picks limited (about 5-8 keepers for a 24-25 man roster).

[Pengwin7]

Well first off, if you are unsure of level of owner knowledge and also what cats to use, I would stay away from a keeper league for the first year.

I would do a one year league, basic set up, and let the league owners get a feel for this type of settings. Non keeper.

Get you're feet wet , then in year 2 or maybe even year 3 go to a keeper format (limited keeper) Maybe keep 5 per team.

Do you want H2H or a roto setting?

100% agree with this.
Do a 1-year, H2H, standard 6x4 Yahoo! settings.
(This way players are ranked by their perceived value - which is close)

You can also very easily get their "feet wet" by introducing them to a "mock draft" or even by setting a time for everybody (14-team max) to mock draft together!!! (A GREAT IDEA)

With my casual group of friends (where we have 2-3 hockey gurus and the rest casual), we also include:
*No Trading (Note: We've never had a single issue in the history of this league - 5years)

*We've done points only... but I think H2H is the way to go to keep people's interests when "making the switch". We are making the switch this year. I've found it's better for overall personal interaction - if "having fun" is the goal of the league over "winning".

[Bobino]

Ok, I guess you convinced me to go H2H... but what about the roster change and free agent add/drop? Should they be done before the beginning of the week? What is a 6X4 format? What kind of of H2H is the best, one win, or the other...

Isn't there a strategy in a H2H to find out which players plays the most game in the next week and go with those... I would like to avoid that because I know some of us will take advantage of that.

Thanks

[Pengwin7]

Isn't there a strategy in a H2H to find out which players plays the most game in the next week and go with those... I would like to avoid that because I know some of us will take advantage of that.

Thanks

You know... this is the sign of a good/fair commish. Good stuff.

I hand-cuff myself in my leagues with friends too. There are ways I could make the setting to dominate the league - and it is good to recognize those and avoid them. In my friendly pool, I actually finished dead last 8/8 last year and I actually tried very hard to jump up in the standings.

Ways of keeping it fair:
1) Weekly Starts. Each team sets their line-ups at the start of every week. The week typically runs Monday-Sunday. Your leaguemates will need to pick their players for each week based on schedules, yes... but Yahoo! has areas where you can click the schedule to see. The guy that won our pool last year was a 1st-time Yahoo! pool user. He knew a bit about hockey.

2) Transaction Limits. If you are worried about people manipulating schedules, this is the best thing to "tweak". You can set a weekly transaction limit like "2 moves per week" and/or a yearly transaction limit like "20 moves per year". My friendly league last year was 12 transactions MAX - which is barely any... 2 per month. It kept the pool low-maintenance and gave everybody just a few moves to shuffle their team. Smooth year - not a single complaint.

3) Weekly Standings. Go with 1pt per category. Hockey purists will tell you that it should be 1pt "for the match" but to keep everybody interested, use 1pt per category. Teams will learn which categories they are good at, and which they need improvement in. Everybody is a (partial) winner every week.

4) Categories. The standard Yahoo league is 2C/2LW/2RW/4D/2G 4 bench. 16 player draft. The standard Yahoo H2H categories are: G/A/+-/PIM/PPP/SOG (for skaters) and W/SO/GAA/SV% (for goalies). I'd recommend keeping those for year 1.

5) Goalies per team. If you have 14 teams or less, go with 2G per team. If you have more than 14 teams, go with just 1G. There are only 30NHL teams so you don't want a team to have to "start a back-up". (14x2 = 28.... which is less than 30)


Immediate Advice:
Go to Yahoo and set up a H2H league with weekly starts for your number of teams. Have a look around, invite your leaguemates. Practice some mock drafts. Get your hands on running a league immediately... even if you decide its not for you!