Do you expect Green to bounce back this year?

[baumer]

I traded for Mike Green last year. I gave a lot for him and I really didn't get to use him at all with his injuries and such. This year I am obviously going to have him on my protected list. We only protect 4 guys and he will be one of them. I'd like opinions on what you guys think he will get this year. Do you think he can go back to 70 points? Do you think he'll be a dud? I have an offer for Doughty, Thornton and a 5th in this years entry draft for Green. I'm intrigued by it.

Opinions?

[dyzfunctioned]

Depends on the system Washington decides to use - but short answer, yes.

If they continue to employ their defensive system I'd expect 50 points out of him. If they go back to run and gun I'd look for 70.

I think they'll still use a defensively responsible model but will feel more comfortable opening up the offense with Vokoun between the pipes. I'd look for 60.

[TwoPuckCanuck]

I'd expect to see lots of the old Mike Green back on the Caps PP, but it won't be an explosive year for him. With a full offseason to recover and train and his role potentially in jeopardy (Carlson pushing hard), I think Mike Green will step and perform.

I'll say like dyz, it really depends on the system the Caps use, but I'd expect a solid 45-50 pts for him with the chance to tickle at 60.

Depending if he's moved or not, expect him to return to 65+ pt glory another season later, barring any injuries.

[baumer]

So based on both of your reactions, getting Doughty for Green would be a good move?

[bondon]

Bounceback - Yes, to what degree i'm not sure yet.

But I think dyz is pretty much on the mark. As for the trade offer I don't see how that can possibly benefit you being a keep 4. Who are your other keepers?

[TwoPuckCanuck]

I'm with b0ndon on this. Like I said, bounce back yes, but not returning to form for this season. In a keep 4, I wouldn't do this trade, unless your keeper forward was along the lines of Zajac or Weiss and in dyer need of an upgrade. Only then would I be enticed by Doughty and Thornton. Otherwise, hang on to Green for now.

[bondon]

I find that THN (The Hockey News - www.thn.com) has the best depth charts for the off season. They are up to date and include most prospects who have NHL potential. Also, their player profiles are great, includes players Assets, Flaws and Career Potential.

Check it out, you won't be let down.

LOL, wrong thread buddy

[JHM]

I suspect I'd take the deal based on:

- health
- various views in regard to Washington's new system
- my belief that Doughty is still on the rise (he's a safe 60 pointer in my mind)
- LA is on the rise, meaning that there will be some easier points to achieve
- 5th overall

Not sure whether Thornton even factors into the discussion. It's a nice name, but you have very limited keepers.

Green. He's not all washed up. He's very special. Choosing to retain him is not foolish. You would be sticking yourself with a guy with 70+ point potential. He too is very young, and only coming into the prime of his career. Although he'll never be renowned for his defensive game, we should see growth in this area year-by-year, until he's reasonable. As players age, they generally start taking the easier quality path, rather than trying to do too much themselves, and then their goal totals dip a bit (go from 30 to 25 to 20). Assists tend to rise. Green is somewhat dependent upon Ovy getting himself back on the 50 goal/100 point path. Backstrom has a similar dependency. I also believe Ovy will bounce back to higher levels.

[kevinsrangers]

thats quite an offer. id take it.

[TwoPuckCanuck]

LOL, wrong thread buddy

Hahaha I know... FAIL. Had three threads open I wanted to answer and just started typing. I switched it over, but Wendel beat me to the punch on THN as an answer. Another Fail.... lol

[ross10019]

I'm with b0ndon on this. Like I said, bounce back yes, but not returning to form for this season. In a keep 4, I wouldn't do this trade, unless your keeper forward was along the lines of Zajac or Weiss and in dyer need of an upgrade. Only then would I be enticed by Doughty and Thornton. Otherwise, hang on to Green for now.

This makes sense to me, this trade may look like one a GM should obviously accept (in most leagues, Green for Doughty/Thornton is a STEAL), but in a league where you keep only 4 players it ALL depends on who you have to drop to add in the 2nd player.

So baumer, who are your other 3 keepers with Green, and if you make the trade and add Thornton and Doughty (obviously with the intent of keeping them), who gets the boot out of those 3 keepers? Also, how many other teams are in your league and how active are your fellow GMs from a trading perspective? (This last question is important because it helps determine the value of the keepers and whether there is an active trading market in case you want to make further trades.)

Now another way of looking at it is that you don't do the trade to add both Doughty and Thornton as keepers, but say for argument's sake to sell one of them off (or sell the current keeper guy who you woudl now have to drop) for even better return/assets. Take for example if you make the trade and then sell off Thornton and the 5th for Backstrom or Parise or something like that. But that's a little risky unless you already pretty much have that second deal lined up when you make the first, otherwise you could kill your leverage and get stuck getting sub-par return for an elite player.

[baumer]

Thank you everyone. You all make some very good points.

i'm hoping he gets back to 70 points. I look at last year as being an off year for the entire team.

As for my protected players, I'm actually protecting two D. Goligoski and Green. Kovalchuk and Ryan are my others. D account for 40% of the points in our league so they are important.

Thornton isn't really worth much, but i am in need of picks this year and he might fetch me a mid to high pick, you never know.

I'll mull this over for a while.

[dyzfunctioned]

Thank you everyone. You all make some very good points.

i'm hoping he gets back to 70 points. I look at last year as being an off year for the entire team.

As for my protected players, I'm actually protecting two D. Goligoski and Green. Kovalchuk and Ryan are my others. D account for 40% of the points in our league so they are important.

Thornton isn't really worth much, but i am in need of picks this year and he might fetch me a mid to high pick, you never know.

I'll mull this over for a while.

So Goli, Green, Kovy, Ryan vs. Goli, Doughty, Kovy, Thornton. I'll take the Green side, thanks.

[bondon]

Thank you everyone. You all make some very good points.

i'm hoping he gets back to 70 points. I look at last year as being an off year for the entire team.

As for my protected players, I'm actually protecting two D. Goligoski and Green. Kovalchuk and Ryan are my others. D account for 40% of the points in our league so they are important.

Thornton isn't really worth much, but i am in need of picks this year and he might fetch me a mid to high pick, you never know.

I'll mull this over for a while.

Interesting.

I think if you can flip Thornton for a mid-high pick then this is a deal I would do. I don't think the drop-off (if any) from Green to Doughty is far off in the last bit.

I can't imagine a situation though where Thornton would be able to fetch you a pick in a Keep 4, but you would definitely have a better idea than I do.

[bondon]

So Goli, Green, Kovy, Ryan vs. Goli, Doughty, Kovy, Thornton. I'll take the Green side, thanks.

Nah man it'd be Goli/Green/Kovy/Ryan vs. Goli/Doughty/Kovy/Ryan + Mid-high round pick in the redraft. Should be some good players there in a keep 4.