Conversations

[TwoPuckCanuck]

HAHAHAAHAHA AWESOME.


I feel like everytime you say "Hello, Sludge." its like Seinfeld saying "Hello, Newman.." and that dirty look haha.

Oh and can we just point out that this thead is in today's ramblings by Angus. Wicked.

[ross10019]

Shoeless: Hello, Sludge.
Sludge: Hey Shoeless, how did you know it was me calling?
Shoeless: Caller ID. Hey man, how’s it going?
Sludge: Well, not great. I’m a little miffed that you rejected that trade offer of Kulemin for Perry.
Shoeless: Why would that miff you, Sludge? Do you think Kulemin is fair value for Perry?
Sludge: Oh hell no, I know that deal isn’t going to get accepted. It was just to get the ball rolling, you know - a place to start negotiations. But you didn’t counteroffer, like what’s that all about? Why wouldn’t you give me the courtesy of a counteroffer?
Shoeless: Uh, mostly because I don’t want to trade Perry.
Sludge: Well yeah, I know you don’t want to trade him, but is it so difficult to come up with a counteroffer, so that I have the opportunity to convince you of the value I am prepared to give you for him?
Shoeless: Sorry man, I screwed up. I thought Kulemin was the value you wanted to give for him.
Sludge: Come on, Shoeless, that’s really lame, you know you don’t give your best offer or even a good one on the first go around. It’s more just symbolic of expressing interest in your player – then you get to the meat and potatoes through counteroffers and counter-counter offers.
Shoeless: I see. Guess I have lots to learn. So help me out here, if I was going to do a good counteroffer, what level of player in relation to Perry would I come back with for this thing to work right?
Sludge: Well, I guess if you came back asking for a player with more value than Perry then it would set the high side of the negotiations, where I set the low side with Kulemin. But to be honest, if you expect a deal to get done, you probably should come back asking for a player of slightly less value than Perry – not much, just a little. Then I am encouraged to fully engage in the process and really dig deep to come up with a better offer to meet you part way. That would encourage me to bargain in good faith.
Shoeless: Okay, I can see how this thing sort of works. But Sludge, I have a question.
Sludge: Fire away.
Shoeless: Can you give me a good reason why I would want to trade Perry for a player of less value than him?
Sludge: Well, it’s not a good idea generally, but occasionally you have to lose some value in a deal to get a deal done. Sometimes you have to compromise to make things work.
Shoeless: Hmmm. Not making a lot of sense to me. I really think a counteroffer by me would have favor me to some extent, don’t you think?
Sludge: Well I guess if that’s how you want to negotiate, I suppose so. So how about it? If I resend the offer, will you at least be courteous and counteroffer, even if the player you ask for is higher in value than Perry?
Shoeless: Yeah, I guess I can do that. Shoot it over.

Day later …

Shoeless: Hello, Sludge.
Sludge: Hey Shoeless, how did you know it was me calling?
Shoeless: Caller ID. So what’s happening?
Sludge: Well I got your counteroffer on the Perry trade and I am absolutely outraged at the disrespect you have shown me with the counteroffer. You must be off your nut to expect that I would give you Crosby straight up for Perry. What the heck are you thinking about?
Shoeless: Well, actually I was just trying to bracket things for a good negotiation. Do you think the gap between Perry and Crosby is bigger than the gap between Kulemin and Perry?
Sludge: That is not the point, you don’t go after one of a guy’s best players with a garbage offer like that. What am I supposed to think? Do you think I am so weak- minded that I might even consider accepting an offer like that?
Shoeless: But,
Sludge: Don’t interrupt, I am not done. You know, this doesn’t even warrant a counteroffer from me. I am totally flabbergasted that you would even think Perry and Crosby are in the same ballpark as far as value is concerned. Guys like you are impossible to deal with. Forget it – I don’t want to talk about it anymore.

Click!

Shoeless: Sigh! This fantasy hockey is hard work sometimes.

Too funny. The fantasy hockey world is full of guys like this.

One guy in my league tried to trade me StLouis last year, and I was definitely interested, who wouldn't be.

Only every offer he made was basically a young elite/semi-elite player plus a draft pick for StLouis. For example, Mike Richards and a 2nd for StLouis and a 4th. In a keeper league...

So we never got anything done.

Well another close buddy of mine is in the same firm as him and they are both in another fantasy hockey pool within the firm. My buddy happened to walk into this guy's office when he was on the phone with another GM in that firm league, and he was saying "St Louis? You're asking me to give you a young guy like Pietrangelo for an old fart like StLouis who has maybe at best another year or two in him? [Profanity laced tirade ensues.]"

The hypocrisy!!

[ericdaoust]

Just wanted to share something I encountered some time ago. Some of you might be able to relate. Let's call this guy Johnny.

Johnny: Hey Eric, how's it going?
Eric: Pretty good, you?
Johnny: Good, been thinking about this team that I just took over, and I think it's time to move forward and push for wins.
Eric: Good to see, always nice to have more competitive teams in the mix.
Johnny: Yeah, so is Bergenheim available?
Eric: I don't see why not, what do you have in mind?
Johnny: Well I feel the best way to do this is to move my picks and acquire guys that I think are going to improve over time. How about a 3rd round pick for Bergenheim?
Eric: Yeah, Bergy is my 5th LW, so I think this is fair compensation. Nice doing business with you.

A week later...

Johnny: Hey Eric, how's it going?
Eric: Pretty good, you?
Johnny: Pretty good, been doing some thinking and it's time for a rebuild.
Eric: You changing course within the same offseason?
Johnny: Yeah, my team isn't good enough to compete, so going to try to acquire as many picks as possible.
Eric: Well OK, whatever works.
Johnny: Yeah, and I already made a trade to help the rebuild. I traded Bergenheim for a 5th round pick.
Eric: Didn't I just trade him to you for a 3rd?
Johnny: Oh ya, but anyways I still think this is the right direction to take.

Two days later...

Johnny: Hey Eric, how's it going?
Eric: Pretty good, you?
Johnny: Pretty good, need you to help me with my rebuild, do you want Dustin Jeffrey?
Eric: Say what?
Johnny: Dustin Jeffrey. I need picks to help with my rebuild.
Eric: OK, you got anything in mind?
Johnny: I'd like to get one of your picks and a prospect, how about Igor Makarov and a 4th?
Eric: Yeah I kinda want that.
Johnny: OK thanks man, I have to go now so I'll send that in for confirmation right away. Glad to be adding guys that are going to help me in the near future.

[Shoeless]

Disclaimer: Sludge is imaginary and bears no resemblance to anyone in my current leagues. Deals talked about are all manufactured for the purposes of the story telling.

[duballstar014]

Well this is awkward. In the league that I'm in with Shoeless, his team name is Sludge....

[kevinsrangers]

this is the best thread ive read on dobber hockey yet. EPIC.

[Magicstew]

Classic stuff, can't believe I read all 7 pages.

[TwoPuckCanuck]

Well this is awkward. In the league that I'm in with Shoeless, his team name is Sludge....

Whatt!? Really?

Shoeless, are you trading with yourself?

[bondon]

Whatt!? Really?

Shoeless, are you trading with yourself?

That would explain why the negotiations are going nowhere.

[ericdaoust]

I don't really have a conversation to represent this, but my biggest pet peeve is when someone wants a player of mine but refuses to make an offer. Instead he keeps trying to push that onto me, basically hoping that I shoot myself in the foot and rip myself off. I usually tell the guy to grow a set and the conversation ends there.

[hawkdog]

Great thread!!

Laughed my head off!!

[mister_mcgoo]

Whatt!? Really?

Shoeless, are you trading with yourself?

he's suffering from dissociative personality disorder, he thinks he's 12 different GMs in his league of 1...the good news is that he never actually loses any money

[Shoeless]

I don't really have a conversation to represent this, but my biggest pet peeve is when someone wants a player of mine but refuses to make an offer. Instead he keeps trying to push that onto me, basically hoping that I shoot myself in the foot and rip myself off. I usually tell the guy to grow a set and the conversation ends there.

The next scenario on tap actually. That's a beaut isn't it?

[ericdaoust]

The next scenario on tap actually. That's a beaut isn't it?

I don't have patience for that kind of stuff so any scenario I would type would be done after a few lines. Thanks for doing this!

[Shoeless]

Shoeless: Hello Sludge.
Sludge: Hey Shoeless. How did you know it was me calling?
Shoeless: Well, my daughter answered the phone and then called me and said, “It’s for you, Dad – it’s Sludge.”
Sludge: Ahh, so how did she know it was me calling?
Shoeless: Caller ID. So what’s up?
Sludge: I was wondering if I could pick your brain about a situation I have going on with the manager of the Puffians in our keeper league.
Shoeless: Alright, what’s the deal?
Sludge: Well, I asked if he would be interested in moving Franzen and he said he would consider it, for the right price.
Shoeless: That’s a start. So did you put together an offer?
Sludge: Well, here’s the thing, huh, I suggested he look at my team and decide what would work for him and get back to me with an offer.
Shoeless: And …?
Sludge: He said no, he wasn’t going to do that. He said if I wanted Franzen then it was up to me to put together an offer for him to consider.
Shoeless: Kinda makes sense, so then what?
Sludge: Well that’s where we are at now, I decided to give you a shout for some ideas as to how to deal with this kind of resistant GM.
Shoeless: Why do you say he’s resistant? Sounds to me like he is open to doing a deal and that all you need to do is come up with an offer to get the talks going about what it will take.
Sludge: Puleeze, that old trick about dragging your feet and insisting that the other guy make the first offer is getting real old. I’m not going to bite on that one. Like how tough is it to take a quick boo at my roster and come up with an offer that he thinks is fair. Nope, I’m not falling for that Sam Shady tactic.
Shoeless: Man, Sludge, I am having a hard time seeing how that is shady. Seems simple enough to me that you want Franzen because he is going to help your team and you just have to decide what kind of offer will make it worth your while to do the deal and get it over to the guy.
Sludge: Wow, sometimes you seem so naive. This is just the old ploy of him getting me to overpay or at least pay more than I have to because he would have accepted less – but he keeps me in the dark so that I don’t know where the real target is. Nah, I’m not letting him off the hook here, he’s gotta come up with some framework first or I’m just going to walk away – I don’t need Franzen that bad that I want to risk getting roughed up in a trade for him. Anyway, do you have any ideas as to how I can improve my position here and get this guy to give me some information about what he is thinking?
Shoeless: Well, I am a little stuck actually, but I do have one idea.
Sludge: Let me have it.
Shoeless: How about if you tell me your bottom line for Franzen and then I can kinda check with Puffians to see if I landed those assets in a trade, if they would be good enough to get Franzen and then if he says yes – then you can just make the offer to him and Bob’s your uncle. That way you get to make an offer without fearing that you are paying more than you want to or should and he isn’t getting an overpay out of you. If he says it isn't enough then you have the information that you were hoping to get out of him in the first place. Swish - nothing but net.
Sludge: Man, you are a genius – how do you come up with these brilliant tactics?
Shoeless: Well, this one is straight out of Gestalt Therapy – it’s called deflection.
Sludge: Well, I would really appreciate if you will do this – I’ll sharpen the pencil and let you know what I am willing to part with and get back to you. So why would you help me out this way?
Shoeless: I got a sentence to do 100 hours of community service work for that DUI thing a month ago, I am pretty sure this qualifies for credit.
Sludge: Hey, wait a minute - if he will accept the offer from you - isn't it still possible I would be paying more than he would actually accept?
Shoeless: Damn, you caught me.