**** The Raptors

[TK12555]

For all of you Raps fans, you have to feel my pain here.

With the 5th pick, Brandon Knight was available!!! But no, we take the soft 7 foot Lithuanian guy who calls himself a "Chris Bosh but not as strong".

Fire Colangelo, this is a joke. We don't need any more soft big men, but you pick another one.

[ericdaoust]

I gave up on the NBA a long time ago. Used to follow the Raps but after Bosh left I realized they're just a revolving door for players that want to eventually earn roster spots south of the border. There is no chance of winning the title so what's the point of being a fan?

[Chuk]

I am by no means a basketball guy but I do like to watch the Raps now and then.
The consensus among the experts was that this kid had the highest ceiling at that spot. Not just a center but overall ceiling.
I was never sold on Knight and neither were quite a few basketball sites.

The other factor is the lockout. If there is no season next year, this kid can play in Europe for another year, develop and avoid all the contract issues and probably help develop a good relationship with the Raps in the future.

I really have no idea if this pick was good or bad, but I think calling for BC's heda because of this pick is a little over the top.

[DuklaNation]

I gave up on the NBA a long time ago. Used to follow the Raps but after Bosh left I realized they're just a revolving door for players that want to eventually earn roster spots south of the border. There is no chance of winning the title so what's the point of being a fan?

Its tough to argue this point.

JV was the BPA and I assume will be a trading chip in the future. If there is a lockout, may actually help his value a bit with more development time. I predict that there will be a trade down the road. I dont think there was any player available that would have a tangible impact on their 11/12 performance anyways.

[TK12555]

I am by no means a basketball guy but I do like to watch the Raps now and then.
The consensus among the experts was that this kid had the highest ceiling at that spot. Not just a center but overall ceiling.
I was never sold on Knight and neither were quite a few basketball sites.

The other factor is the lockout. If there is no season next year, this kid can play in Europe for another year, develop and avoid all the contract issues and probably help develop a good relationship with the Raps in the future.

I really have no idea if this pick was good or bad, but I think calling for BC's heda because of this pick is a little over the top.

It's not just this pick. It's the tipping point on a complete miserable tenure as our GM.

In 2006, drafting Bargnani was one of the riskiest 1st overall picks of 21st century thus far, which hasn't paid out. Barg is soft as a pillow

He traded away a first rounder, T.J Ford, and Rasho Nesterovic for Jermaine O'neal, despite the fact that he had a bad knee and was coming off knee surgery. O'neal played half a season for us and averaged 10 points a game. He was then traded, along with our 2011 first rounder for Shawn Marion and a plug. Marion only played half a season for us and was outta here.

He signed Hedo Turkoglu to a massive contract, and he was a bust, only lasting a season. He messed up our point guard system for years, ignoring our issues at most positions while always having two strong point guards. One gets upset, and is traded for nothing. It happened with Ford, and it happened with Jack.

And now, with Calderon seriously struggling and our frontcourt set for the next few years with Davis and Barg, with the need for athleticism pressing, and Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight, and other athletic guards available, he selects another soft European who can only say "I am not too strong" in English.

I've defended BC enough, and his decisions are just crazy. He's under contract for 5 more years, and he'll likely screw up many more times.

[Big Ev]

The Raptors are gonna suck next year so you'll get another Top 5 pick in a better draft. Don't see the big issue here.

Also, people are too quick to pin it on the GM when it's the scouts who usallly make the call.

[angus]

What a joke.

[Big Ev]

Why is everyone anti-Euro all of a sudden? Did you not see who won the title?

Also, why do people think they're NBA draft experts all of a sudden. Fans no squat about who should be picked.

[mapletreemarty]

I am so glad Bargnani was selected over guys like Aldridge or Roy...

As for tonight's pick... Awesome Bargnani v 2.0

Should have grabbed Knight than trade away Calderon since his defense is useless.

[MXHockey]

Raptors = NBA farm team. Vince Carter departure was the beginning of the end.

[metaldude26]

Okay I see so much crap in this thread that I have to rally against it may take a few posts.

I wanted Brandon Knight too, he has the chance to be better than Kyrie Irving but he also has the chance to be a flop. This was a bad draft year period. I do take exception with you calling Valanciunas soft. I think you are misinterpreting his statement. He said he's not as strong as Bosh. That has nothing to do with how hard he plays the game and Valanciunas plays the game hard.

I've heard many comparisons to Darko Milicic but I'd like to point out a few reasons why these comparisons are flawed. The first is that Valanciunas is much more mature at the same age than Milicic was. The second is that Valanciunas won't come over right away so he won't be rushed and ultimately crushed by the culture shock and pressure. The third is just his general approach to the game. There isn't the worry about effort with this kid the way there was with Milicic. Valanciunas goes all out and while his game is perimeter oriented he's one of the best pure athletes in the draft and he's not afraid to bang when he has to.

He's raw but we aren't going to rush him anyway the way we would have had we taken Knight (who needs a tonne of work on his point guard skills by the way). I've read several scouts saying he could be the best player in the draft. Outside of the top two guys everyone is picking for pure potential. Personally, I wanted to trade the pick so we'd get better now but instead we are stockpiling assets, which isn't the worst thing in the world.

My second issue is regarding the Jermaine O'Neal trade. Yeah Jermaine was a bust but so was TJ. TJ was a cancer. He lost his job to Calderon and couldn't handle life on the bench, he also can't stay healthy either. Colangelo saw a guy who was undervalued and took a shot. What we needed (and have always needed) is a center to own the middle. O'Neal would have been this had he panned out. Also that pick was the 17th overall so not a huge deal. Its position was set. It’s not like he dealt a future pick like he did to get rid of Jermaine (which was a terrible deal BTW).

So I’m well aware of Colangelo’s mistakes. He made a bunch in Phoenix too. Frankly he’s done enough bad to get fired but I don't criticize him one iota for the first Jermaine deal.

Also this non-sense about overloading on Euros is complete bull crap. What about Calderon? He was a great pick up. Why isn’t he on your list? No success with Euros? Come on.

I also include Belinelli on my list of success stories. He’s not great but that’s not the expectation. He was the instant offense we were promised he would be and that’s all we can ask for. He was our version of Eddie House, the irrational confidence man.

Garbo was a success too. Remember how awesome he was that first season? He was well worth the shot we took on him. Ultimately his injury and subsequent disagreement over playing hurt for Spain led to him leaving but that’s at least somewhat circumstantial and he was a huge part of us winning our only division title so I applaud the pick up.

I can’t believe you are hating on Rasho too. What did you expect from him? He was a solid and serviceable NBA veteran when we picked him up and played very well for us when we desperately needed size and experience. I’m sorry but if you didn’t like Rasho you need to give your head a shake. He wasn’t European when we got him. He was a basketball player and a solid one to boot.

I see you included Araujo, who was neither a Colangelo pick nor a European so let’s not include that abomination on this list.

Peja doesn’t belong on that list because he was only acquired to make the Bayless for Jack deal work and as an expiring contract was someone we could maybe use in a deal. Ultimately we cut him because we had no real plans for him on the team.

I also refuse to criticize the Bargnani pick. Bargnani was the best pick in the draft at the time and he has panned out quite well. He's not a top 20 player but I'm not sure there was a top 20 player in that draft. Brandon Roy wasn't Brandon Roy until he got to Portland, no one saw that coming and there were always question marks about his health. Look at him now. I'd much prefer to have Bargnani but at the time this was never in play. No one was considering Roy that high.

The other three players you might consider criticising over with hindsight vision are Rajon Rondo, Rudy Gay and LaMarcus Aldridge. Rondo even more so than Roy was never in play for the top pick and you could certainly argue it took playing with the Celtics big three to turn him into who he is.

Rudy Gay didn't become a better player than Bargnani until this season. Until this year I'd have argued it either way. Gay was one of those guys with a bunch of athleticism and length but could have been a huge bust. Plus he wasn't really in consideration for the top pick at the time. I'm not saying there was ever a debate but had there been the Raps made the right choice by going for size, which is something they've always needed.

Aldridge is better now but until this season he wasn't. In fact until this season he was Chris Bosh 2.0 and the Raptors had already tried and failed at that with Charlie V.

Bargnani was the right choice and he hasn't been a failure. He is what he is a very good player but not a franchise guy. He was the right choice in a bad draft. We're more unlucky than we are dumb for drafting that Euro.

I will grant you three Euro failures. Turkoglu, Kleiza(so far) and Ukic. Ukic was a second round pick though so I really don’t know that we could have done better. Kleiza still has time although I have no optimism and Turkoglu was a complete and utter failure. Obviously it was a desperate attempt to bring in talent to convince Bosh to stick around, unfortunately we were a victim of timing once again as the free agent class was awful. Give Colangelo props for pulling off the deal to get rid of “ball” though because that was a first class swindling.

I really don’t see that we’ve had much failure with Euros. The fact is that many American players want nothing to do with playing in Toronto. Colangelo is a radical but he tries. He’s tapping an under utilized market not unlike what the San Antonio Spurs (the model franchise of the past decade+) have done. The problem is that without a franchise player you cannot win in this league. And we haven’t had one since Vince and maybe we’ve never had one. Despite being a huge market Toronto is not unlike the San Antonio’s and Oklahoma City’s of the league. We need to get lucky with that franchise guy who wants to stick around and then find undervalued character guys to surround him with. Finding the right coach might be nice too. We haven’t had great coaching since Lenny Wilkins and even he wasn’t that good.

Now the other criticisms regarding point guard problems are kind of flawed as well. TJ was brought in because he was undervalued and we also took a shot at Calderon at the same time. It worked out because we hit on Calderon. TJ was dispatched but it’s worth noting that part of the reason he was brought in was because of his relationship with Bosh as a fellow Texas born player.

Jarrett Jack was brought in to be a hardnosed defensive backup point guard but also because of his friendship with Bosh from the Georgia Tech days.

Don’t forget that Colangelo had a deal made with the Bobcats where we would have moved Calderon for Tyson Chandler. That would have been a steal. It’s never a bad idea to accumulate assets, particularly when you are capable of pulling off the deals Colangelo can. Is it Colangelo’s fault Triano turned the point guard situation into a shit show because he didn’t know who to start? It is but only because he actually gave Triano the head coaching job.

Ultimately I see only a few major flaws regarding Colangelo’s tenure in Toronto. His assertion that Bosh is most definitely a franchise guy who would want to stick around and could carry a team is the biggest one. Most of his subsequent failures all stem from trying to appease Bosh. For what it’s worth, Bosh put in half a season of being a franchise guy and carrying the Raptors. He turned into a new player and was playing tough but I think his mind was already made up to leave. That or he decided at the All-Star Break, which is when it all went downhill.

The other main flaw is regarding coaching decisions. When Colangelo came in Mitchell was an unspectacular coach and Mitchell’s philosophies clearly didn’t mesh with Colangelo’s. This was clear from day one. He went with him anyway and got a division title and was stuck with Mitchell. Then when Mitchell lost his guys by being too overbearing he went with Triano who was the biggest pushover I’ve ever seen. Triano will always be an excellent assistant but was never meant to be a head coach. I’m hopeful the new guy Dwayne Casey is the right choice. He’s a hard ass and these young players should respond to that kind of direction.

Ultimately we will suck next year but it’s got nothing to do with who we picked this year. Colangelo could go but I’m comfortable going ahead with him because I’m not sure anyone would do a better job considering our market. We need to hit a homerun in the draft and I don’t think it would really matter who we have at the helm to do it. One thing I trust Colangelo to keep doing is keep proding. That means more risks, more trades and more insanity.

So honestly I could go either way on Colangelo. Fire him? Sure because his tenure shouldn’t be considered a success. Keep him? Well we can’t possibly get any worse. We need to win some sort of lottery to be good be it the draft lottery or Colangelo’s insane moves lottery, one of them will result in a franchise player eventually. Technically speaking we double our odds with Colangelo.

[MXHockey]

Colangelo is a good GM. Toronto should never fire him.

Toronto is the NBA equivalent of playing for the Edmonton Oilers. No one wants to play for the Raps, and when the opportunity to move comes along, players leave.

It has nothing to do with Colangelo, it has more to do with the fact that players prefer to play south of the border.

[dmvincent]

Hold on a minute, a 7 foot centre that is 230 pounds? Whats so bad about that? I think it was a good pick, he's clearly in really good shape and he's only 19 years old. I'm not into basketball at all but I heard he was supposed to go earlier. The Raptors have been victims of terrible GM's, Colangelo is building slowly buts its even tough for him with the Raptors situation. I mean now you've got Calderon, DeRozan, Bargnani, Ed Davis and this huge 19 year old 7 footer! The core is starting to form.

[slicktee519]

I would of took Jimmer....he was fun too watch all year & during March Madness. Probably could of got the big turk in 2nd round

[dmvincent]

I would of took Jimmer....he was fun too watch all year & during March Madness. Probably could of got the big turk in 2nd round

Are you serious? He would have gone top 10 easily, nobody would leave him on the board until the second round.