Western Conf. Finals: (1) VAN vs (2) SJ

[hawkdog]

canucks in 4, but hoping 5, gotta ticket to that game

[doulos]

Prediction:

The refs come down hard on the Canucks the next couple games for their diving now that the Sharks have whined.

Sharks in 6 games.

[Loch]

Just out of curiousity... (genuine curiousity!)

Diving/embellishment is a course of behaviour geared toward 'encouraging' the referees to make calls that they might not have otherwise made.

Complaining out loud at press conferences about the uneven officiating / diving is a course of behaviour geared toward 'encouraging' the referees to make calls that they might not have otherwise made.

Maybe it is just me... but why do you see universal criticism of the former while you sometimes see people lauded for the latter?

My random musings for the day...

I also don't see where there were enough dives or near dives to swing the penalty balance massively in the series even if the refs went hardcore on them. I've said it before, but this series will be determined by the players. These two teams didn't finish 1-2 in the West and reach this point because of help or hindrance from the referees.


Incidentally, if you prepared to blame the refs if your team loses I assume you will be quick to thank them when you win?

[MoreCanadianTeams]

At risk of sounding like a homer, I see it as karma that the Canucks got some calls their way, as they sure weren't early in the playoffs. I've mentioned before that I lost count of the number of broken sticks resulting from slashes on Canucks that didn't get called. That being said, I much prefer a game where PP's are even and limited in number.

On another note, as I mentioned in Ridinryan's Canucks thread, I was happy to see Lou just covering the puck after the Gretzky like assist he gave Jumbo and I hope he continues to do so. I keep hearing analysts talk about the high percentage play, and to me it doesn't get much more high % than keeping possession and getting a whistle. I know some think that defensive zone face-offs aren't a good thing, but I'd rather give my team the chance to regroup than risk a giveaway. I don't mean to add to the already overwhelming evidence against Lou's puck handling skills, but rather draw attention to what I see as one of the few weaknesses that Vancouver's D has, and that is reacting to plays that start with Lou's passes/clearing attempts.

For some reason they (Lou & the D) often do not seem on the same page and rather than accurately predict what Lou will do, they seem to react instead, and end up a step behind in pursuit of the puck, perhaps because Lou doesn't know what he's going to do each time either?

So again, hopefully Lou continues to use the safe play and trust in his centers to win the d-zone face offs.

[Baron Nicko]

At risk of sounding like a homer, I see it as karma that the Canucks got some calls their way, as they sure weren't early in the playoffs. I've mentioned before that I lost count of the number of broken sticks resulting from slashes on Canucks that didn't get called. That being said, I much prefer a game where PP's are even and limited in number.

On another note, as I mentioned in Ridinryan's Canucks thread, I was happy to see Lou just covering the puck after the Gretzky like assist he gave Jumbo and I hope he continues to do so. I keep hearing analysts talk about the high percentage play, and to me it doesn't get much more high % than keeping possession and getting a whistle. I know some think that defensive zone face-offs aren't a good thing, but I'd rather give my team the chance to regroup than risk a giveaway. I don't mean to add to the already overwhelming evidence against Lou's puck handling skills, but rather draw attention to what I see as one of the few weaknesses that Vancouver's D has, and that is reacting to plays that start with Lou's passes/clearing attempts.

For some reason they (Lou & the D) often do not seem on the same page and rather than accurately predict what Lou will do, they seem to react instead, and end up a step behind in pursuit of the puck, perhaps because Lou doesn't know what he's going to do each time either?

So again, hopefully Lou continues to use the safe play and trust in his centers to win the d-zone face offs.

Very good points. During the Chicago series I was furious at times at the (in my mind) completely blatant slashes/roughing calls coming from the likes of Bolland or Scott. I dislike listening to all the diving complaints but it doesn't even strike a nerve. It's the playoffs and we're here to win. I don't even think what SJ was complaining about is valid anyway. They were all penalties in my mind and if our player embellished it to make sure it's called I really don't care. I also think Heatley is just a dirty player and when I watched his interview I had to laugh.. cover that face Heatley :P

[angus]

Canucks have had more PP's than the opposition three times in the last 31 games. If they are embellishing calls, they sure aren't good at it.

San Jose needs way more from Clowe/Heatley.

Thought Couture was far and away best forward for them in game one. Reminds me of Toews.

[letnry]

Canucks have had more PP's than the opposition three times in the last 31 games. If they are embellishing calls, they sure aren't good at it.

Jeff, I think that is pretty poor logic. Since when did embellishment automatically mean you should be getting more PP opportunities than your opponent? The Canucks could have 10 legitimate penalties called against them, and their opposition have 8, 3 of which were embellished, and that still doesn't mean they weren't embellishments or make it any more acceptable. Maybe I am missing the point you were trying to make.

[mister_mcgoo]

Jeff, I think that is pretty poor logic. Since when did embellishment automatically mean you should be getting more PP opportunities than your opponent? The Canucks could have 10 legitimate penalties called against them, and their opposition have 8, 3 of which were embellished, and that still doesn't mean they weren't embellishments or make it any more acceptable. Maybe I am missing the point you were trying to make.

yeah agreed, that's piss poor logic...just because you don't get as many PP chances as your opponents doesn't mean you aren't diving for pearls

[spitball]

Canucks have had more PP's than the opposition three times in the last 31 games. If they are embellishing calls, they sure aren't good at it.

San Jose needs way more from Clowe/Heatley.

Thought Couture was far and away best forward for them in game one. Reminds me of Toews.

point one from above; i think jeff is saying the canucks aren't getting any special treatment, pro or con.

point two; i agree that the sharks need more from clowe/heatley, but i'm sceptical they'll get what they need. if clowe is as hurt as his play in game one seems to suggest, that line is in trouble.

point three; wouldn't surprise me if, by the end of game two, and for the rest of the series, AV has kesler matched with couture as often as possible. he is a blossoming selke candidate...great anticipation, great stick and body position, great tenacity on the puck. and very dangerous around the net.

[mister_mcgoo]

point one from above; i think jeff is saying the canucks aren't getting any special treatment, pro or con.

regardless...its still a lame duck argument grounded in irrelevant stats...here, watch, I'll do the same thing:

The Nucks were 11th overall in the regular season drawing penalties, but they are dead last amongst all teams in penalties drawn per game in the playoffs. Since they had the best PP in the league this year its clear that they must be trying extra hard to draw penalties thru embellishment so they can take advantage of their vaunted PP...see how hokey that sounds?

bottom line is that the Nucks are playing better than their opponents and that's why they're where they are at, but they've still got away with some pretty questionable dives, no question about it

[angus]

I fail to see how SJ has a beef with any of the calls in game one. NSH definitely had one with the OT call on Weber. I see that.

Heatley had his elbow up. Elbow to face = penalty. Pretty obvious. Murray's stick was under Kesler's visor and in his face. Face = high, stick in face = high stick.

Anyway, my logic with that stat above isn't great. McGoo is right. I don't think that the lack of PP calls and their league leading PP are unrelated, though.

[InForAPenny]

The argument of the Canucks having less power plays than their opponents goes more towards: the refs are handing the Canucks the win comments, than the diving argument.

In that way I can see Angus' post having merit.

[MoreCanadianTeams]

bottom line is that the Nucks are playing better than their opponents and that's why they're where they are at, but they've still got away with some pretty questionable dives, no question about it

I agree with this summary, which mirrors what a lot of Canuck critics are saying.

However, that said, there is also the appearance of finding fault where there really isn't much else to point at. The Canucks being professional and business like can look like cocky to someone else. Vancouver players used to have a reputation for whining to the refs for non-calls, they have cleaned up that part of their game and now they're accused of embellishment to draw ref attention.

As a fan, I'm guilty of finding fault as well, i.e. Lou's puck handling. The guy is 3 wins short of a Final, made some critical stops along the way and here I am commenting on his gaffe's.

I guess the point I'm getting at is there is a lot of attention being paid to the "diving" and from my perspective if this is the worst thing we can come up with for criticism then who really cares. They're not heartless, they're not dirty, they're entertaining, they've overcome adversity, they're winning and best of all, they're representing a Canadian city, which as we know happens very rarely this time of year.

Please note, I don't like diving and at risk of being too repetitive, I hate the flop, drop & roll part of Lou's game. I hope he grows out of that habit like Kesler & Burrows have grown out of being cheap & trashy. Aside from that, I think the Canucks have earned their success thus far and hope they can keep it going, now that they've got 3 lines starting to roll.

[AtlantaSportsFan]

Couture... this kid is soooooo damn good.

[doulos]

If it takes the world ending on Saturday to prevent the Canucks from winning the Stanley Cup then I am all for it.