The Mike Smith "I told you so" Thread

[Pengwin7]

I'm feeling frisky today... so... gonna do some pat-on-the-back stuff and welcome some debate!

One of my absolute pet peeves to hear on the forums the past 2-3 years was this:
"Mike Smith will continue to be a good goalie because of Tippett's system"
or
"Mike Smith has become a good goalie because of PHX's goalie coach, Sean Burke."


My standard response was:
"No, Tippet's system isn't good, the Yotes are consistently one of the NHL's (ten) worst teams by SA/G... that's not a good system".
and also
"The only reason any goalie in PHX plays well is because nobody cares about hockey there, and for a goalie playing without pressure is a good thing".
and my last standard response after Smith signed his contract
"Mike Smith is going to fall apart with the big contract because he finally has expectations to perform."


Arizona (& Tippett's team) is awful.
I predicted them to finish at or near last in the West. Correct.

Smith is awful.
I've never invested in him in any league because ARI always gets shelled and now he has the pressure of expectations (via salary).

Same coach as a few years ago: Tippett.
Same main D-pair as a few years ago: Yandle/OEL
Same sub-par forwards as past years: Doan, Boedker, Vermette

Where you at Mike Smith/Tippett supporters?
Where. you. at?

[metaldude26]

They got some pretty strong performance from Devan freaking Dubnyk so I don't think you can simply write off Tippett (or goalie coach Sean Burke who is also a huge reason why Arizona has been able to resuscitate several goalies over the years).

[JagrBomb]

They got some pretty strong performance from Devan freaking Dubnyk so I don't think you can simply write off Tippett (or goalie coach Sean Burke who is also a huge reason why Arizona has been able to resuscitate several goalies over the years).

exactly.

while I do agree smith does suck, the tippet system is still great for goalies. dubnyk didn't suddenly become a great goalie after leaving Edmonton. he left an awful defensive team to play for two good defensive teams in phx and minny.

and then you factor in the yotes tanking now so there is no chance of smith putting up good numbers when the season is lost, you can't really blame him.

I'd like to think he's a buy low for next year. not saying he will have great numbers, but they will be much better than this year, especially since they will have mcdavid on the roster


gave you some rep for nailing your prediction though. I certainly didn't think the yotes would be this bad so kudos for that.

edit: nvmd I cant give you any more, apparenty I've done it too many times haha

[rataylor22]

Mike Smith has always been an awful goalie.

But I disagree that Tippet's system is bad. Bryzgalov, Smith (for a few years), Dubnyk, there is too much history of success in Phoenix with abject failure everywhere else to write off Tippet's system. Mike Smith is a bad goalie who put up better than talent numbers for a few years because of the system. I would not buy low on him and I would not ever expect him to get to a good level again, but that is because Smith is bad, not because Tippet's system is bad.

[Pengwin7]

^See... but some of these posts above are what irks me.

When goalies do well in Phoenix... everybody says "Tippett has a good system". (This strikes me as somebody thinking:.... I'm just gonna say what everybody else is saying...)
And these same people disagree when I possibly suggest "There's no pressure in Phoenix, that's the main reason... Tippett's system isn't anything beneficial to a goalie - the Yotes are still getting peppered".

If a goalie does poorly in Phoenix, such as Mike Smith this year... what's the explanation?
This is what I want to know.
Where are all the Tippett/Tippett/Tippett... Burke/Burke/Burke people?
Don't go straight talking about Dubnyk - that's avoiding the direct measuring stick here: Mike Smith.

Goalies do well in Phoenix... people say "Burke can turn a goalie around"... and point to Dubnyk.
But what about a goalie like Bryzgalov... he was great in Phoenix and awful after Phoenix... is it because he didn't have Burke/Tippett any more?
But now... over to Dubnyk... let's be hypocrites... he's great AFTER Phoenix... and this IS because of Burke??? (but not for Bryz?)

re: Dubnyk
Minnesota plays a GOOD system.
We've seen several goalies THRIVE there for 10-15 game spurts: Harding!... Kuemper!...
Eventually those guys fell on their ass.
Dubnyk... here's just the next guy... and few people credit MIN for Dubnyk's success...
Hmmm... what can we find... "Oh! Sean Burke! Yeah, Sean Burke will be a popular answer!"

If he does well "Accolades to Sean Burke for turning his career around"...
But why not say "Any decent goalie can thrive in MIN... if the team is motivated!" (nah, not as fun to say, let's do Burke!)

If Dubnyk starts to stumble... people won't reference Burke/PHX anymore (as they didn't for Bryz either post-PHX).

The Tippett/Burke thing annoys me because it's bandwagon-thinking (IMO).
Somebody comes up with something and everybody jumps aboard.
Similar to Bettman-hate. It's just fun to be "in that club".

I say nay-nay.
There's no pressure in Phoenix for a low-paid goalies.
That's why they do well.

Tippett's system can only be called "good" for goalies if it's one of the better NHL teams for limiting shots against.
It never has been. Go find me a year when Phoenix was among the best teams in the NHL at limiting shots!
And Burke, IMO, can only really be called a "significant influence on goalies" if his tutored goalies carry what they learned to success beyond PHX (*cough* Bryz *cough*).
And neither Bryz or Mike Smith were able to show a sustainably good SV% on or off Phoenix.

And yet, the general community loves to "Tippett this"... and "Tippett that"... and "Burke this"... and "Burke that"...

I hate it.
Average goalies do well without pressure (small-market or low-contract) ... and often buckle with pressure (big city, or big contract to live up to... or both).

I wish people would just give that some consideration instead of always going Tippett/Tippett/Tippett... Burke/Burke/Burke.


For me...
This thread...
it's for the chirpers...
I'm just happy all those people got Mike-Smithed this year.

Tippett/Tippett/Tippett... Burke/Burke/Burke...
{squawk!}

[metaldude26]

Well I mean Dubnyk himself gave Burke a ton of credit so do with that what you will.

[metaldude26]

Should also be noted that Smith, Dubnyk could simply be examples of a dead cat bouncing.

[Vanek! at the Disco]

An "I told you so" thread? really?

Just when I think you can't possibly be any more of an arrogant **** you raise the bar once again.

[Pengwin7]

An "I told you so" thread? really?
Just when I think you can't possibly be any more of an arrogant **** you raise the bar once again.

And just when I think you can't possibly be more of a hypocrite.

re: VATD: ForumMembers thread

VATD: I think he makes a decent point actually, too often the same opinions are just repeated like gospel from the ramblings or whatever, what's wrong with a little healthy disagreement and debate.
Why even have forums if you don't want to argue about stuff and everyone agrees?

[Vanek! at the Disco]

And just when I think you can't possibly be more of a hypocrite.

re: VATD: ForumMembers thread

VATD: I think he makes a decent point actually, too often the same opinions are just repeated like gospel from the ramblings or whatever, what's wrong with a little healthy disagreement and debate.
Why even have forums if you don't want to argue about stuff and everyone agrees?

The issue isn't that you feel you had a different opinion to share, it's that you feel the need to create a post after the fact for the sole purpose of patting yourself on the back. Pure arrogance and ego all the way, you've got a lot of growing up to do pal.

[Pengwin7]

The issue isn't that you feel you had a different opinion to share, it's that you feel the need to create a post after the fact for the sole purpose of patting yourself on the back. Pure arrogance and ego all the way, you've got a lot of growing up to do pal.

Um... I think everybody on the forums already knows I'm arrogant and have an ego.
That's not news to anybody.
You might as well get over that.
And I'd assume that you won't be changing for the better for the rest of us either.

Me & you... we're two peas in a pod.
You gonna talk Mike Smith at all in this thread... or just do your forum member criticism?

[metaldude26]

[jeff416]

This is a pretty lame thread

[Vanek! at the Disco]

Um... I think everybody on the forums already knows I'm arrogant and have an ego.
That's not news to anybody.
You might as well get over that.
And I'd assume that you won't be changing for the better for the rest of us either.

Me & you... we're two peas in a pod.
You gonna talk Mike Smith at all in this thread... or just do your forum member criticism?

you forgot racist blowhard and hypocrite

you're not in any pod that I'm a part of nor want to be part of

[Bomm Bastic]