Breaking: charges coming for 2018 WJC

[Feenom]

He's found guilty. He was charged in 2022. His sentencing is in May

Oh yeah, verdict came down today. Didn’t know about this one. I guess he thought she was 18 when she was really 15. Judge thought he didn’t do enough to check her age. Video in there too. Sad.

[PenguinHunter]

Just ignore him.

It’s easier said than done when he he tries to paint you as something you are not or fishes something out of the his imagination and try to make you a bad person.

It also doesn’t help when others feed into his illusions.

And calling others obtuse because they don’t agree with him.

It’s his Typical self-righteous behaviour. Nothin new here folks.

[Daydream Nation]

Why do people, in sexual assault cases only, presume that those charged are guilty? Because, as already discussed, they almost certainly are. The burden of proof to even bother bring charges is incredibly high. The burden of proof to convict is even higher. The incidence rate of false accusal is miniscule. These 5 will more than likely walk, they are almost certainly guilty, and society at large understanding that is a good thing. A very good thing.

And this is exactly why it doesn't bother me that many people assume guilt when people are charged with sexual assault. They'll have their day in court.

[doulos]

It’s easier said than done when he he tries to paint you as something you are not or fishes something out of the his imagination and try to make you a bad person.

It also doesn’t help when others feed into his illusions.

And calling others obtuse because they don’t agree with him.

It’s his Typical self-righteous behaviour. Nothin new here folks.

Agreed, but it's the only way. Everyone has to ignore that he exists. Or at the very least don't engage.

[doulos]

And this is exactly why it doesn't bother me that many people assume guilt when people are charged with sexual assault. They'll have their day in court.

Even though most of these folks are guilty, it still bothers me to say that we know they are. We don't. We can have a pretty high certainty that they are, but even then we only know a certain amount of the details in these situations. Sure, I have my own opinions on these individuals (coloured by the fact that I have a daughter and have seen enough minor hockey disgusting behaviour), but I'm still uncomfortable casting my own judgement, steeped in ignorance, on situations like this.

[GretzkysMullet]

Even though most of these folks are guilty, it still bothers me to say that we know they are. We don't. We can have a pretty high certainty that they are, but even then we only know a certain amount of the details in these situations. Sure, I have my own opinions on these individuals (coloured by the fact that I have a daughter and have seen enough minor hockey disgusting behaviour), but I'm still uncomfortable casting my own judgement, steeped in ignorance, on situations like this.

They've already admitted to group sex and degrading sexual acts with someone who had not agreed to that before going home with a single player, their claim of "innocence" is just around the question of consent. They are dirt bags regardless of the outcome. And seriously, who makes someone record a video saying they consent when they haven't done anything wrong? These guys know what they did was awful, they just don't want to go to jail for it.

That Corson thing is gross too, and then there is the other world junior team being investigated for similar allegations. This pattern is beyond foul and honestly it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable as a hockey fan knowing this is the culture, these guys think they can do these things and get away with it. Anyone who has daughters, sisters etc should not be ok with this.

[Daydream Nation]

Anyone who has daughters, sisters etc should not be ok with this.

100% I actually thought about my daughter and how I am a helluva lot more uncomfortable about the prevalence of sexual assault and the probability of predators going free than I am about people assuming some hockey players are guilty of rape when a lot of the details are already known.

[doulos]

They've already admitted to group sex and degrading sexual acts with someone who had not agreed to that before going home with a single player, their claim of "innocence" is just around the question of consent. They are dirt bags regardless of the outcome. And seriously, who makes someone record a video saying they consent when they haven't done anything wrong? These guys know what they did was awful, they just don't want to go to jail for it.

That Corson thing is gross too, and then there is the other world junior team being investigated for similar allegations. This pattern is beyond foul and honestly it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable as a hockey fan knowing this is the culture, these guys think they can do these things and get away with it. Anyone who has daughters, sisters etc should not be ok with this.

The question of consent is not a minor piece though. It's critical.

I completely agree with you that hockey culture is quite rotten and I struggle to know how much I can even watch the sport these days - while on the same hand I still enjoy it. I can't say it's easy to resolve that tension. It's a bit like famous actors/performers etc who have produced great works but are terrible people - a rabbit hole that one can go down for sure.

[SeaDawg]

These guys fully admit to what they did. The only issue at stake here is consent, and as far as I'm concerned, even if the victim did give consent at the beginning for some of the sexual acts, any reasonable person should have realized at some point along the way that it went too far.

[loppantorkel]

They'll be tried for their actions. I'm not sure how 'reasonable' we are expecting these 18-19 year olds to be. Hadn't they been drinking too? They and the woman? I've not followed the circumstances more than I've read here, but it's too easy to blame it on the hockey culture. Of course things has to change to prevent things like these from happening and not covering it up, but this isn't exclusive to hockey.

[ross10019]

Hockey culture has undoubtedly, in some cases, sheltered monsters who were allowed to commit terrible acts. Both sexual assault against women, and predatory crimes against minors.

The vast majority of instances where a woman accuses a man of sexual assault, it’s real and the victim deserves ton be believed unequivocally. That said, without tramping all over the accused due process rights.

But if anyone thinks there aren’t instances of false accusations, which ruin people’s lives, you are mistaken.

As one example, read about Declan McCool - a rowing athlete at McGill elected to the highest student office, and his life turned upside down by a false accusation of sexual assault:
https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...fb5cc05b3/amp/

[rataylor22]

Who said they don’t happen? Literally ~everything~ happens at some point. The occurrence is just statistically insignificant. “But when it happens it ruins people’s lives”. Yea bro and sexual assault ruins most victims lives and occurs and an exponentially higher occurrence.

1 in 6 American women have been a victim of attempted or actual sexual assault. Less than 40% get reported. Of reported cases, 2-8% are false accusations while 2.5% result in jail time. The math is pretty simple. The cost of not believing women is exponentially higher than risk of false accusal.

[loppantorkel]

2-8 % of reported cases being false isn't a small figure and not at all statistically insignificant. Then there's an even larger grey area, one could assume. Easier to view it in black & white goggles though.

[rataylor22]

It’s statistically insignificant when taken in context with total occurrence and incidence of conviction. Even if you’re false accused, which is unlikely, you’re basically assured to be acquitted. The law can barely get guilty people convicted, let alone truly not guilty people.

Keep in mind we’re evaluating overall societal cost and impact, not individual.

[loppantorkel]

..but the case you're making about believing the accusations of these women would have a great personal and societal effect. It's often just words against words. Lots more convictions, many valid, most very contentious, and also many absolutely false - over a million innocent just in the US.

The cost of not believing women is exponentially higher than risk of false accusal.