League Management Question - Please Chime In

[mister_mcgoo]

I would really like to get some feedback from folks on this as its something that has caused considerable argument in our league.

This is the first year for this league and it was started under the premise of being a highly competitive league with extremely savvy and dedicated managers. In fact the managers were hand-selected from some of the sharpest contributors on these boards.

One of our managers took a unique approach to the draft and began drafting all young players, and in fact, solely prospects after about the 8th round or so. It was kind of a novel approach, kind of like starting out an expansion team so I was interested to see how well he would do.

The problem is that now he has chosen to \'play to lose\' by benching the few players he has who are actual fantasy studs so that he can secure himself last place and the best chance at Tavares/Hedman etc in next year\'s draft. We have no explicit rule for this in our league but many of us feel its completely at odds with the spirit of our league. I know I\'ve been in leagues before where managers have intentionally \'tanked\' their team in the final few weeks for this purpose and that has caused a big stink, so you can imagine how some people feel given that he\'s chosen to tank his team from the start of the season. Some managers have proposed instituting a rule change to address this but I\'m not sure how you would even word such a thing???

What are your thoughts Dobber bretheren?

[The Comish]

Can\'t change a rule like that once the draft has been done and the season started. He\'s using the rules to his advantage. This should have been thought of and a rule drawn up before the draft.

I\'ve been through this type of behaviour before and the general consensus it\'s not against the rules, let him build for a future that may never come. Prospects are not sure things.

Bring up a well thought out rule to cover rosters and tanking starting next year and have everyone vote on it. Hope that Tavares/Hedman or whomever he drafts turn into the next Daigle.

I understand what some guys are thinking; it goes against the competitive spirit of what you guys had intended, but in most pools, there is ALWAYS one guy you need to create rules for because they always seem to be pushing the envelope. That\'s why most of my pools have 6 page rules. Gotta cover every angle!

[mister_mcgoo]

thx Commish, I see both sides if it myself as well, but actually our league provides a provision to add such rules during the season since this is very much a work in progress and these kind of rule issues invariably come up in new leagues.

[Yetimouse]

Here is what we have done in a keeper league that I am in.

Top 3 place in the money.

Fourth place gets the first overall pick the next year. We did this to stop guys from tanking, and especially just giving players away to teams that are making a run at first. Also, it creates a second race in our league.

Last, second last, and third last get the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th overall picks.

First, second and third finishers get the 14, 13, and 12 picks in the 14 team keeper league. The rest of the picks are decided through lottery.

Finally, we have a playoff system where the top ten teams qualify. This also creates a race to get into the playoffs. It seems to have worked well.

Good luck solving the situation. It sucks.

[ddp]

In our pool, we prevented this from happening by making the following. Out of all the non playoff teams, whoever finishes first will get the first pick the following year. This makes the out of contention teams play for something. ALSO, a team tanking can also affect the outcome of the final standings.
just an idea for the future...it works great for us.

[kozzie]

I am not really sure what you could do about it now.
This is why I am not a big fan of this type of drafting.
I like the prospect draft to be totally seperate from the regular draft.
I am in two leagues where prospects were allowed to be drafted along with the regular players.
We have one guy who really drafted all younger guys and prospects.
All though his team is not horrible he is going to be stacked for years to come. The rest of us drafted current players playing in the NHL and we are the better teams right now but we are dead in a couple of years.
He has Bernier the goalie from LA in his lineup even though he is not currently playing on the Kings.
I think this type of thing should not be allowed. If he is in the minors he should not be in your starting lineup.
He is perfectly within the rules of the league but I am not a fan of this type of thing.
Maybe you could throw in a rule that all his players on his starting roster have to playing currently on NHL teams.
Sorry I could not help more

[Briarpatch00]

I hear your pain mcgoo...

Our solution was to introduce a weighted draft lottery for the last 4 teams (out of 10) and we also instituted a $$$ penalty for the last 2 teams ($15 and $10).

It actually worked the first time we used it 2 years ago because Crosby was back up for grabs and hte guy who tanked had the most chances but the lottery spit out the guy who came in 6th. That was one of the best feelings at a draft because as Commish said, you always make the rules for that one guy...

[Sam]

Hello Mcgoo,

This has been an issue in my League as well. Last year things got real ugly over it too.

If you do a search on \"tanking\" on this site you\'ll find that it is a debate that has gone on many times. Everyone seems to be split on whether it is good or bad. The argument usually ends up with someone saying \"Well if NHL teams can do it why can\'t we?\"

Personally I think tanking hurts a keeper league and here is why:

- Sure a small handful of NHL teams do tank each year. Maybe 1-5 at most. In a 30 team league you barely notice it. In a 10-12 team fantasy keeper league if 5 teams tank it is a big deal. It ruins the competitive nature of the pool. If I wanted to be in a 5 team league I would\'ve joined one.

- Yes NHL teams do tank but there are consequences. Loss of fans, loss of revenue, etc. In a keeper league there is usually no consequence for tanking, only gain. Which really means that if you have no chance at the money EVERYBODY should tank. In a 12 team league that pays out 2-3 spots why shouldn\'t 7-8 teams tank? Very lame.

- If the pool also includes the Playoffs, if too many of the teams tank then the Playoffs are pretty much a \"non-event\" which sucks for everyone.

- Some teams really do suck. These teams need those early picks to improve. This is how most keeper leagues are set up. If they weren\'t then why would the bottom teams fork out the entry fee next year? When a legitimately good team tanks just to steal the early picks from a truly sh!tty team then people get upset. Gross tanking wars start and everyone gets pissed off about it. Not good for any League that is supposed to be fun.


Solutions: (some of my own ideas and some I\'ve found on this forum)

1. Draft Lottery: instead of just a simple reverse order of the Standings for your draft order introduce a Draft Lottery for the first 4 picks. That way tanking won\'t guarantee you the best pick.

2. Playoffs: If you don\'t have playoffs add them. Make sure that the bottom 4 teams in the draft lottery miss the playoffs. Make sure there is a decent amount of prize money for the playoffs too. A playoff race adds interest and should keep the mid-to-bottom teams interested. A head-to-head format for the playoffs will also give the bottom teams some hope of upsetting a top team as well.

3. Consolation round: Instead of being in the playoffs, the teams that miss will have to compete to get the best draft picks in the draft lottery. \"Weight\" the lottery based on the results of the consolation round. (ie. 1st place in the consolation gets 4 balls in the lotto machine and last place only gets 1.) This forces the bottom dwellers to stay somewhat competitive.

4. Charge the last place team 50% of the entry fee EXTRA next year.

5. Last place team buys the beer for draft day next season. Make him the beer b!tch too. You could also add this for the playoffs too.

6. Incentive system: Give the teams something else to go for other than just prize money. Our league has implemented a \"revenue\" system. The better your team performs the more revenue pts you earn. These points can be banked over several seasons and can then be spent on various \"bonuses\" depending on your rules. Our league has limited keeper spots and trades. Banked revenue points can be spent to purchase another trade or protected roster spot. It should make people think twice about tanking because coming in 5th instead of 9th will mean something.


Anyhow these are just some ideas. In my opinion there isn\'t one specific rule you can add to eliminate tanking altogether. It will have to be a combination of deterrants and incentives to keep the competitive spirit of the pool alive. It is a balancing act. You don\'t want to hurt the teams that truly do suck, yet you want to deter the good teams just tanking for the picks.

My .02 cents

[The Comish]

It may have already been mentioned, but you could implement a minimum games played by position rule. That way if a guy wanted to tank it, at least you could make it tough for him to keep great players and prospects who are not playing in the NHL.

[Bighabfan]

to discourage tanking and add a little fun at the end, in my 14 team league, the top 8 make the playoffs and the bottom 6 go into a tournament with the winner getting the first overall the next year.

[Shoeless]

Not a familiar problem to me - I only tank in one year leagues.

What a nice thread - some great ideas and experiences emerging here.

[doulos]

I wish I could blame my performances this year on tanking, then it would look like I was choosing to be dead last.

[kozzie]

Their are alot of great ideas on here.
We have a lottery in our leagues,which I didn\'t know. Stupid me.
I have finished near the top so it has not been a factor yet.
I like alot of the ideas on here though.

[Dobber]

The Comish wrote:

Can\'t change a rule like that once the draft has been done and the season started. He\'s using the rules to his advantage. This should have been thought of and a rule drawn up before the draft.

I\'ve been through this type of behaviour before and the general consensus it\'s not against the rules, let him build for a future that may never come. Prospects are not sure things.

Bring up a well thought out rule to cover rosters and tanking starting next year and have everyone vote on it. Hope that Tavares/Hedman or whomever he drafts turn into the next Daigle.

I understand what some guys are thinking; it goes against the competitive spirit of what you guys had intended, but in most pools, there is ALWAYS one guy you need to create rules for because they always seem to be pushing the envelope. That\'s why most of my pools have 6 page rules. Gotta cover every angle!

My thoughts exactly.

I agree with tanking within the rules. If tanking takes place and the league does not like it, then the league needs to vote on a rule starting next season. You can\'t change the rule now.

PS in my 19-year-old keeper league I have personally been the cause of three different sandbagging rules, implemented after I found the loophole for the season after.

[ima]

definitely looks like this guy is working the system in a huge way. I personally just don\'t play in pools like this where people are always looking for some way to weasel their way past the rules. In this case though it looks like you may need to do what Dobber says and close this loophole before next season, some of the suggestions for how to do so in this thread have been excellent