Tyjo+ for 2nd OA

[Overated Veteran]

I was thinking of offering Tyler johnson (3,5M) and max Domi for the second overall pick. I offered tyjo alone ans the owner said it was not enough but... I feel like it's already a good deal but I wouldnt bother too much if I had to add max domi. What do you think about this ? Is tyler johnson elite? Whats eichel upside ? Domi's upside?

[Jouko-Pouko]

I wouldn't even accept Johnson+Domi for the 2nd overall. If you can land the 2nd overall with that, congrats. Eichel has easily the highest upside of the three.

[Dennis4022]

I would keep Johnson and Domi. I believe in Johnson and i think his last season was not a fluke, he's for real and has ppg potential. Eichel needs to get there, nobody knows if he ever will.

If you want Eichel, just wait 6-12 months and his value will probably be a lot lower. Just think about Yakupov, MacKinnon, Drouin, Draisaitl or Huberdeau. All their prices dropped a lot after the draft.

[mounD]

I would keep Johnson and Domi. I believe in Johnson and i think his last season was not a fluke, he's for real and has ppg potential. Eichel needs to get there, nobody knows if he ever will.

If you want Eichel, just wait 6-12 months and his value will probably be a lot lower. Just think about Yakupov, MacKinnon, Drouin, Draisaitl or Huberdeau. All their prices dropped a lot after the draft.

I would say what you're advising is the "Steven Stamkos" approach. He was drafted to much fanfare, and teams were sending an arm and a leg after the draft to acquire him. I don't need to remind you guys that he kinda flopped over the first half of his rookie season, largely due to inconsistency and a very, very unluckily poop Shooting%. Some of the very shrewd managers out there acquired him for peanuts around mid-season, and he has basically never looked back. Despite being 9th in the ROY Calder voting, Stamkos had a dynamite 2nd half of the season, almost shooting 20% and scoring goals left and right. He had arrived. The next season he went apesh*t, and destroyed the NHL to the tune of 51 goals and 95 points as an NHL sophomore.

While I don't necessarily think a Stamkos-like opportunity will present itself here, ala Nate MacKinnon, I do believe that Dennis' philosophy is a good one to take with prospects, at least in the general sense. Eichel is very, very different from the prospects listed above, perhaps with the exception of MacKinnon who, in my estimation, is ultimately like a poor-man's Jack Eichel. I don't foresee Eichel's season going much worse than MacKinnon's somewhat magical 2013-14 ROY season. I wouldn't be at all shocked to see 70 points from Eichel this season, although I'm ironclad on my projections for 60+ points right out of the gate.

That being said ... if you can snag Eichel for Tyler Johnson + Max Domi, then that's something I would be all over. Despite what some people have said, the price probably won't be any lower than it is now. He's coming off a "bust" performance at the Sabres scrimmage camp, and all the hype in the world has been surrounding McDavid like fruit flies hovering around some rotten bananas. I think this is a great deal for Eichel, somebody who is going to blow the pants off this league and surprise a whole lot of people who doubted his abilities in comparison to Connor McDavid.

[Dobber]

I would keep Johnson and Domi. I believe in Johnson and i think his last season was not a fluke, he's for real and has ppg potential. Eichel needs to get there, nobody knows if he ever will.

If you want Eichel, just wait 6-12 months and his value will probably be a lot lower. Just think about Yakupov, MacKinnon, Drouin, Draisaitl or Huberdeau. All their prices dropped a lot after the draft.

sound advice

And although Eichel does have the highest upside of the three, I am a TyJo believer

[mounD]

sound advice

And although Eichel does have the highest upside of the three, I am a TyJo believer

I am 100% a Tyler Johnson believer, but Jack Eichel's raw upside is probably anywhere from 10-20+ points higher than Johnson. Plus, I hate to pull the size card but Jack Eichel is going to be somewhere around 6'2", 200 lbs. on opening night. Kid is a beast. A little birdy named Dobber recently told me that Eichel's maximum upside is somewhere in the 110-point neighborhood (assuming the NHL gets its act together and takes steps to increase scoring for the McDavid era, which Dobbs and I both believe they will). Upon consulting the most recent Fantasy Guide (2014-15) and Midseason Guide (14-15) I noticed that TyJo's upside was listed at 75 and 80, respectively. I am fully willing to concede that after two very impressive seasons coming into the TBL lineup that Tyler Johnson probably gets a solid 10-point bump from the 75-80 upside numbers in previous guide.

So, assuming arguendo that Tyler Johnson's max upside is 85-90, and also assuming that BOTH Eichel and Johnson reach their max upside, THEN we are left with the following comparison:

Eichel (110) - Johnson (87) = 23 point difference.

There's also the additional consideration of Max Domi, and his ultimate replacement for your team should you choose to proceed. I would most likely suggest keeping Thornton or Pouliot, depending upon your preference / team needs relative to each position (C or F). Thornton just doesn't age, and he's still putting up 60-70 point seasons at his age. I don't really see that changing given the cerebral game he plays, not really relying on physical intimidation, breakneck speed, or anything like that. As for Pouliot, he's going to play in the Penguins top4 Dmen this season in all likelihood. He should probably get a crack at PP2 minutes. MY guesses for Penguins PP units:

PP1: Kessel-Crosby-Hornqvist D: Malkin-Letang

PP2: Perron-Sutter-Kunitz D: Maatta, Pouliot -----> I think both of these units give the pens a quality group, but obviously I prefer loading up with the top unit, as you can see. In the event of a Letang injury which forces him to miss some time, I think Pouliot gets the first crack at the PP1 minutes, as he is quite possibly the most offensively-gifted Dman the Pens have under contract (yes, including Letang). Last hype train is leaving the station, and it may be the last time we can reasonable acquire Pouliot. Absolutely love this kid, can't wait to see what he brings over the course of a full 82.

So, you basically have to look at this trade as such:

Tyler Johnson + Max Domi <<---->> Jack Eichel + Derrick Pouliot / Darnell Nurse / Big Joe Thornton

I think when viewed (appropriately) in this light, this is a deal that you ABSOLUTELY should make.

P.S. One more thing, you asked about the upside of Max Domi. It's quite large ... Without giving too much information away from Dobber's prospects report, Domi is ranked as the 11th forward prospect behind McDavid, Eichel, Drouin, Teravainen, Bennett, Draisaitl, Ehlers, Burakovsky, Sam Reinhart, and Pastrnak. So he's a borderline Top-10 prospect right now (all info taken from the publicly posted "Top 215 Prospects). As for Domi's max upside and/or 3YP numbers, as articulated in DobberHockey's 2015 Prospect Report, they're listed as follows:

Upside: (30-60-90, 90 PIM) 20%
3YP: (25-38-63, 70 PIM)

So, by all accounts he should be a fantastic hockey player, and therefore, a high-end fantasy contributor sometime between 2015-16 and 2017-18. But ... that doesn't mean you're losing him for nothing. Like I said before, you'd be adding someone like Big Joe or Derrick Pouliot (or even Darnell Nurse, despite the fact that he isn't a fantastic points-only asset). Ultimately, even cosidering Max Domi's elite upside (though, with a low chance of actually reaching those gaudy 80-90 points heights), I would pull the trigger on this deal. I think in a couple seasons you'll be very, very glad you did.

[Overated Veteran]

Wow thank you big times for those extremly complete answers. I couldnt ask for more. Special thanks to MounD youre the man

For the info, I'll throw the offer at him and I will let you know. I love Tyjo as well but I'm ready to take a little risk

[GoNucks]

I would wait for now, give it partway into the season and then revisit this deal and I bet Eichel can be had for less. Then jump on a cheaper price for Eichel.

[chuckcouples]

I would make the offer as well. As a financial advisor, I often get asked whether now is a good time to invest or if they should wait for the markets to come down. I always respond with, the best time to invest is always now. The markets are going to do what they are going to do and no one can predict them with 100% accuracy. Is there a chance that the markets drop? Always but between now and retirement the markets will increase so it's better not to miss the potential gains in the short term.

Trying to time the markets is a fools game. If you can get Eichel now, do it.