Starbucks People

[forumname]

But at the same time, someone "needs" to run the world, because without any sort of direction (whethe we want or not) this world would be like the next first person shooter video game. Not sure if that's the answer either.

I find a lot of irony there - the power/money gap in the US is massive and the poor get lead in all kinds of directions by the rich and powerful - yet if anything they are heading toward a first person shooter scenario as opposed to away from it...

[forumname]

forumname,

I wonder if slowing everything down would actually end up having very big negative effects on the economy, and on the quality of life for people. There's simply no going back to an idyllic pastoral way of life, so I don't know how radically you could change things and still have a viable economy. Just a thought. I'm not sold on either direction.

You're right, I'm not sure how it would work in practice, but in theory it makes all the sense in the world. People were once promised that technology would ease our lives. If machines could build things for us, we wouldn't have to build them ourselves and we could have more free time to enjoy life. Instead, we just kept making more and more and more things and working harder and harder in the name of some kind of progress. All of that contributes to a wealth gap, which contributes to an overworked, underpaid and generally unhappy majority. The middle class is going the way of the dodo, if it hasn't already.

[Loch]

Middle Class always complains that the rich get richer, yet they fail to do something about their own future. If you work hard and smart enough, everyone can be part of the rich.

There is so much wrong with this... in the most fundamental sense not everyone can be rich. Basic economics precludes this, as does a: all documented history, and b: common sense.

[Dutch]

There is so much wrong with this... in the most fundamental sense not everyone can be rich. Basic economics precludes this, as does a: all documented history, and b: common sense.

that is false,

everyone can be part of the wealthy. But the majority of people are too negative, too lazy, and have no confidence in themselves to actually make things happen for themselves.

Every single person in the USA or Canada has the opportunity to become wealthy. That is a fact, as long as you want it hard enough and are willing to put the work into it

[forumname]

that is false,

everyone can be part of the wealthy. But the majority of people are too negative, too lazy, and have no confidence in themselves to actually make things happen for themselves.

Every single person in the USA or Canada has the opportunity to become wealthy. That is a fact, as long as you want it hard enough and are willing to put the work into it

I get where you're coming from and I used to really agree with that line of thinking, but now I think it's more of an illusion. It's easy to see it that way from the privileged side of the fence.

[blayze]

there is nothing wrong with having the rich become richer.

They are rich because they worked hard for it.

Wrong.

In most cases, it has very little to do with how hard they work... it has everything to do with access to opportunities.

The enormous (and growing) disparity between the wealthy and the poor generally boils down to the simple fact that rich people have access to opportunities that poor people do not. The rich get richer because of their privileged access to opportunities such as better investment vehicles that require larger minimum investment thresholds, they can call on favors from people in higher places, they get preferential tax treatment and can afford advisors who will help them take advantage of legal loopholes, and last but certainly not least, they receive the benefit of the doubt from society based on appearance and lineage alone.

A poor person can work their ass off doing back breaking labor and submit thousands of resumes a year to hustle for a job, and 990 times out of 1000 they won't get even a fraction of the opportunities and breaks that fall into the lap of some spoiled rich ******* who never lifted a finger in his life because he was born into the lucky sperm club.

And yes - it is a huge problem in our society.

[forumname]

Wrong.

In most cases, it has very little to do with how hard they work... it has everything to do with access to opportunities.

The enormous (and growing) disparity between the wealthy and the poor generally boils down to the simple fact that rich people have access to opportunities that poor people do not. The rich get richer because of their privileged access to opportunities such as better investment vehicles that have larger minimum investment hurdles, they can call on favors from people in higher places, they get preferential tax treatment (or can afford advisors who will help them structure) and generally speaking they receive the benefit of the doubt from society.

A poor person can work their ass off doing back breaking labor and submit thousands of resumes a year to hustle for a job, and they 999 times out of 1000 they won't come even close to the opportunities that fall into the lap of some spoiled rich ******* who never lifted a finger in his life because he was born into the lucky sperm club.

I agree. Perception of opportunity is also a huge factor.

[Dutch]

Wrong.



The enormous (and growing) disparity between the wealthy and the poor generally boils down to the simple fact that rich people have access to opportunities that poor people do not. The rich get richer because of their privileged access to opportunities such as better investment vehicles that require larger minimum investment thresholds, they can call on favors from people in higher places, they get preferential tax treatment and can afford advisors who will help them take advantage of legal loopholes and last but certainly not least, they receive the benefit of the doubt from society based on appearance and lineage alone.

with the exception of your last sentence, that is entirely false. Middle Class people can have same investment vehicles as the rich. But if you want those, you may not want to go to a bank

[Loch]

that is false,

everyone can be part of the wealthy. But the majority of people are too negative, too lazy, and have no confidence in themselves to actually make things happen for themselves.

Every single person in the USA or Canada has the opportunity to become wealthy. That is a fact, as long as you want it hard enough and are willing to put the work into it

It really isn't false... let's set the bench mark for being rich at about 100k/yr (I'd go more with 250k, or the top tax bracket)... okay, now the per capita GDP in Canada or the US is 43k or 53k. So if the current GDP was evenly split then... um... not everyone would be rich... actually, nobody would be. Moderately wealthy, sure... a nice upper middle class existence, two cars, house in the burbs et al. But no 'rich' people. And good luck accumulating wealth when your shopping costs have to cover the wages of a Walmart cashier pulling in 50k.

I find it hilarious that the same fools who rave about equality not working insist that everyone can be rich. It. Does. Not. Work.

Now, can you achieve a comfortable and enjoyable place in life through hard work? Sure, though less so in the US and UK because social mobility is relatively bad. But can everyone get rich? Nope.

[Dutch]

as for the opportunities. Most people don't have the guts to make big decisions and take a leap of faith.

When a lot of Jews came to the USA in the early 1900's they left everything behind and were broke as hell. They started their own little shops and what not, and now many of them are very well off.

It may take a generation or sometimes even two, so I guess you gotta account for that, but it's done time and time again.

But off course there are more recent examples of this too. Robert Herjavec is one of them. And there are literally COUNTLESS examples.

truth is, most people rather watch the next season of survivor than create a better life for their family and future generations.

But sometimes you gotta make a decision that most people won't make

[Dutch]

It really isn't false... let's set the bench mark for being rich at about 100k/yr (I'd go more with 250k, or the top tax bracket)... okay, now the per capita GDP in Canada or the US is 43k or 53k. So if the current GDP was evenly split then... um... not everyone would be rich... actually, nobody would be. Moderately wealthy, sure... a nice upper middle class existence, two cars, house in the burbs et al. But no 'rich' people. And good luck accumulating wealth when your shopping costs have to cover the wages of a Walmart cashier pulling in 50k.

I find it hilarious that the same fools who rave about equality not working insist that everyone can be rich. It. Does. Not. Work.

Now, can you achieve a comfortable and enjoyable place in life through hard work? Sure, though less so in the US and UK because social mobility is relatively bad. But can everyone get rich? Nope.

Everyone CAN be rich because not everyone WILL be. That's because most are not willing to do what it takes.

And working as an employee you likely (not sure if there are exceptions) will never be rich.

[Mr. Guru]

My contribution to this thread is that I drink about 4-5 coffees a year. And I had one today complimentary with breakfast. And I put as much milk as there is coffee usually. Lots of milk. What fancy name coffee is that?

[plug]

My contribution to this thread is that I drink about 4-5 coffees a year. And I had one today complimentary with breakfast. And I put as much milk as there is coffee usually. Lots of milk. What fancy name coffee is that?

A latte

[Loch]

A latte

Latte's typically have the milk is steamed... I believe this would be cafe au lait.

Add it to the list of fun things to be learned from this thread.

[The Comish]

I don't drink coffee, but I've enjoyed this thread immensely. It's morphed from coffee to financial to discussions on wealthy vs poor. Love it!