The players' salaries have grown as a result of league revenue growing.
Regardless of the size of their slice of the pie this growth rate would be unchanged, ergo it is not the problem. Complain about the size of their share, sure, but the growth rate is not the issue here. I believe I did already mention that.
Fairly certain I've not been throwing around 'free market' as the cap and cap floor impose maximums and minimums, perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
You said the teams were passing on escalating costs to you which seemed to suggest you felt they would pass savings on to you. I did say 'if you think' so that isn't what I'd call 'putting words in your mouth', merely asserting that if you held that belief that you'd be nuts.
See, here is the problem with your argument. You have the causal relationship backwards. Player salaries (collectively) are determined by league revenue. League revenue is largely (60% or so) determined by ticket revenue. So as ticket prices increase player salaries MUST increase (thank you cap floor!).
You think:
Players Salaries increasing causes ticket prices to increase.
Reality says:
Ticket revenues increasing causes player salaries to increase.
Now the profitability issues for a large chunk of the teams results from the revenue increase NOT being very evenly distributed whereas the cost increase IS evenly distributed.
Columbus revenue went up 12% from 2005 to 2009, the player costs went up 15% in the same span.
Toronto revenue went up 35% from 2005 to 2010, the player costs went up 16%.
(forbes numbers fyi)
Yes the system is failing but it is not in any way 'caused' by player salary growth as that growth is a dependent variable in the NHL's economic system.
/S
~ I'm not a sociopath, it's just that my magnetic personality keeps throwing off my moral compass.~
Victoria DH
C(3): Athanasiou, Sissons, Zibanejad
LW(3): Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Hymen
RW(3): Bjorkstrand, Smith, Palmieri
F(3): Stepan (C), Bjork (LW), Poehling (C)
D(6): Carlson, Heiskanen, Bogosian, Edler, Hakanpaa, Fleury
G(1): Talbot, Sorokin, Varlamov
Bench: Parise (LW), Motte (C), Richardson (C), Hagg (D)
IR: Wood, Henrique, Johnson, Dvorak
Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril
I haven't studied the definition of HRR but I'm pretty sure things like merchadise and parking (during NHL games) are counted on HRR and don't go into different books. Owners may get to do some reductions from them but that's not 100% money that goes into owner's pockets but is divided amongst the owners and players.
Money from concerts and all non-hockey events in the arenas should go into the owners pockets and only in their pockets. I don't see why players would deserve to get a piece of that pie. Owners should have the right to make money through other means as well. Not like Crosby etc. have to give any of their endorsement money to owners either but they're free to try and get as much money as they can get. So I don't see the purpose of this point. Obviously owners get money through other means of business but that's their right. The hockey team itself should be profitable regardless of how much money the owners get from elsewhere.
Last edited by Carcillo; December 12, 2012 at 1:41 PM.
UHL Pittsburgh Penguins
24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW
W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
27 Man Minor Team
C- Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
RW- Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
D- JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
G- Lehtonen, Rämö
F: Lehterä, Wennberg, McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs
*UHL Champion 2014*
There's a lot of things that go into that HRR pool. Here's one article trying to explain the issue of HRR:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...d-revenue.html
You mentioned luxury boxes earlier. Well it's not something that goes into owners' pockets as such according to that article:
So the owners get directly some of that revenue to their pockets but they also can't reduct any of the costs so I doubt it's really a that big of a cash cow for all NHL teams.As mentioned, teams are supremely annoyed because they can't deduct any costs from luxury box revenues. But the NHLPA isn't thrilled either because it doesn't feel players get enough of the earnings.
Almost all of the NHL's teams own their arena or are paid to manage it (eg. Nashville Predators). "One-team" arenas (ie. no NBA tenant) must allocate 65 per cent of luxury suite revenue towards HRR. "Two-team" arenas (eg. Air Canada Centre) are at 32.5 per cent. So even though teams like Montreal -- and we're using the Canadiens for a specific reason -- can't deduct costs, 35 per cent of their suite cash can't be touched.
Last edited by Carcillo; December 12, 2012 at 1:57 PM.
UHL Pittsburgh Penguins
24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW
W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
27 Man Minor Team
C- Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
RW- Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
D- JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
G- Lehtonen, Rämö
F: Lehterä, Wennberg, McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs
*UHL Champion 2014*
For what was (or wasn't) counted as HRR in the last CBA see this site: http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/2005-CBA.pdf
Start at page 180 (in the PDF numbering, the actual number on the page is 161)
/S
~ I'm not a sociopath, it's just that my magnetic personality keeps throwing off my moral compass.~
Victoria DH
C(3): Athanasiou, Sissons, Zibanejad
LW(3): Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Hymen
RW(3): Bjorkstrand, Smith, Palmieri
F(3): Stepan (C), Bjork (LW), Poehling (C)
D(6): Carlson, Heiskanen, Bogosian, Edler, Hakanpaa, Fleury
G(1): Talbot, Sorokin, Varlamov
Bench: Parise (LW), Motte (C), Richardson (C), Hagg (D)
IR: Wood, Henrique, Johnson, Dvorak
Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril
Yes...you're correct in that it's a percentage, absolutely. An oversight on my part (I knew that too). Same with food vendors (unless you own one like Jacobs) I just meant that the owners do recoup revenue from these sources...albeit not 100%.
I didn't mean to imply that....sorry.
@SmittysRant