World Junior Championship Chat

[Big Ev]

Cowen doesn't have one fan, he has plenty. If anything he's UNDERRATED because a lot of people don't know who he is/haven't seen him play much. To the casual fan, they will see last year's WJC in which he barely played and in which he still had a knee that wasn't 100% healed and they will think he's "not good".

But I get it, you're one of those guys who thinks the WJC is the be all and end all when it comes to prospects. If they have a great WJC they are amazing, if they aren't good at the WJC they're a bust.

and you're right, Kadri was the wrong draft choice, Cowen was a much better pick. LMAO

[Dean Youngblood]

nah....Paajarvi was the right choice for the leafs

[slufoot]

Cowen doesn't have one fan, he has plenty. If anything he's UNDERRATED because a lot of people don't know who he is/haven't seen him play much. To the casual fan, they will see last year's WJC in which he barely played and in which he still had a knee that wasn't 100% healed and they will think he's "not good".

But I get it, you're one of those guys who thinks the WJC is the be all and end all when it comes to prospects. If they have a great WJC they are amazing, if they aren't good at the WJC they're a bust.

and you're right, Kadri was the wrong draft choice, Cowen was a much better pick. LMAO

Its obviously not the be all and end all as many great players haven't even played in the tournament, but it is the only chance (other than the Memorial Cup) that one is able to judge them against elite competition. If a player sticks out at the WJC, 9 times out of 10 he's going to be a great player at the next level. If he doesn't stand out - you still have some questions in the back of your mind.

Returning players in particular should stand out, they've been there before and are usually either top-10 draft picks or almost 20. Cowen has just looked more like a ring it around the boards defender than a first pass defender. I wasn't unimpressed with him though, it was De Haan that I thought looked very bad.

[metaldude26]

and you're right, Kadri was the wrong draft choice, Cowen was a much better pick. LMAO

This is funny because if you look at the Sens now you could argue they messed up big time passing on Paajarvi and going with Cowen. They could have had a great Swedish contingent going on there. Not that nationality matters, just an interesting point but the fact of the matter is that they could really use some more scoring punch up front, particularly on the wing. I was certain the Sens would snap him up but was praying that he'd fall to us at 10. I'm certainly not upset that the Leafs and Sens made the wrong choices ahead of us.

My take on Cowen is simple. To me, there's little reason to spend a high pick on a shutdown guy. I mean, where's the upside. If he pans out then great he's a very solid presence but if he falters he's a wasted pick. At least with an offensive guy you can teach him some defense and he could carve out a niche that way. You take a shutdown guy and he's already pigeon holed into that niche. The jury is out on how well Cowen fills that niche but I think there are more questions than answers at this point.

Based on what I've read and heard about his World Junior Camp was that he wasn't excellent. His status as a returning player definitely helped him. His size was an obvious boost too. It's clear that was what the coaching staff valued most going into this tournament. We'll see if it was the right move or not come Boxing Day.

[slufoot]

This is funny because if you look at the Sens now you could argue they messed up big time passing on Paajarvi and going with Cowen. They could have had a great Swedish contingent going on there. Not that nationality matters, just an interesting point but the fact of the matter is that they could really use some more scoring punch up front, particularly on the wing. I was certain the Sens would snap him up but was praying that he'd fall to us at 10. I'm certainly not upset that the Leafs and Sens made the wrong choices ahead of us.

My take on Cowen is simple. To me, there's little reason to spend a high pick on a shutdown guy. I mean, where's the upside. If he pans out then great he's a very solid presence but if he falters he's a wasted pick. At least with an offensive guy you can teach him some defense and he could carve out a niche that way. You take a shutdown guy and he's already pigeon holed into that niche. The jury is out on how well Cowen fills that niche but I think there are more questions than answers at this point.

Based on what I've read and heard about his World Junior Camp was that he wasn't excellent. His status as a returning player definitely helped him. His size was an obvious boost too. It's clear that was what the coaching staff valued most going into this tournament. We'll see if it was the right move or not come Boxing Day.

Couldn't agree more with that statement. You draft a shutdown guy and hope he has a career like who? Adam Foote? He was a premier shutdown D - 2nd round pick. You can find those those players in the 2nd, 3rd round. The odds you find a 40 goal scorer in the 2nd or 3rd round are significantly lower.

[Big Ev]

I think if you draft a shutdown guy (which isn't the only thing Cowen projects to be, that's more like Dylan McIlrath) in the first round it's because you know he is a lock to make it in the NHL and possibly be an impact player. Guys who are drafted in the second round and onward can still be impact players, but they are more of a project-type pick and are not guaranteed to even sniff AHL action. If you draft a guy in the first round (not the lottery picks) who makes it to the NHL and sticks, I think you've made a good pick.

The Cowen pick is in the same as Luke Schenn. Same type of players and realtively close draft position. Also like the Gudbranson pick if he never got injured.

Also, I'm not sold on Paajarvi yet (hasn't really impressed me personally when I've watched Oilers games), so I'm not convinced that Toronto, Ottawa, and Dallas made the wrong selection when they selected their respective players before the Oil went at #10. I think all 3/4 (including Glennie) could all have solid careers.

[Big Ev]

Its obviously not the be all and end all as many great players haven't even played in the tournament, but it is the only chance (other than the Memorial Cup) that one is able to judge them against elite competition. If a player sticks out at the WJC, 9 times out of 10 he's going to be a great player at the next level. If he doesn't stand out - you still have some questions in the back of your mind.

Returning players in particular should stand out, they've been there before and are usually either top-10 draft picks or almost 20. Cowen has just looked more like a ring it around the boards defender than a first pass defender. I wasn't unimpressed with him though, it was De Haan that I thought looked very bad.

I don't have all the examples but I don't think it's that high. Didn't Boyd Deveraux have an amazing WJC? Can't remember...and Shawn Matthias as well?

[metaldude26]

I know people will laugh, but Matthias still has time. Only 23 if I'm not mistaken. That's still young for a powerforward type. Look at what Anthony Stewart is doing. He was a beast for Canada at the WJC in '04, stumbled at them in '05 for obvious reasons and then fell off the face of the Earth. Well he's re-emerged in Atlanta. Some 6-7 years after World Junior glory.

[Princeton]

Also, I'm not sold on Paajarvi yet (hasn't really impressed me personally when I've watched Oilers games), so I'm not convinced that Toronto, Ottawa, and Dallas made the wrong selection when they selected their respective players before the Oil went at #10.

I am NOT an Oilers fan.

However, my Leafs, the Sens and especially Dallas made the WRONG choices. MPS will be Hossa 2.0.

[fungchen3]

I am NOT an Oilers fan.

However, my Leafs, the Sens and especially Dallas made the WRONG choices. MPS will be Hossa 2.0.

Yeah, I think all those teams made a mistake by passing on Paajarvi. I have total faith in MPS being an impact player at the NHL level one day.

As for the Hossa comparison, that would be great but a young Hossa was much more top-heavy and strong going to the net. Hossa also had some of the sweetest hands in close. If MPS could end up Hossa 2.0 I would be thrilled as an owner!!

To me Paajarvi is a unique player. I keep trying to compare him to a specific player but his pallet of skills make him a hybrid of different players. If I had to pick one, his style reminds me most of a Kopitar.

[Big Ev]

I am NOT an Oilers fan.

However, my Leafs, the Sens and especially Dallas made the WRONG choices. MPS will be Hossa 2.0.

Can I have borrow crystal ball?

and by the way, you copied Jeff Angus who has said that before on this site.

[Princeton]

Can I have borrow crystal ball?

and by the way, you copied Jeff Angus who has said that before on this site.

True.

But been a fan since the kid was 16.

Got the Timra games taped and a scout friend sent me a lot of info. His knock which became the gospel was that he wasn't a finisher. He somewhat dispelled that rumor when he tied for the WJC scoring lead last year. That and some sweet goals for Timra.

When you compare his stats to Kopitar, Forsberg and the like in the SEL at his age, you can't deny his ability.

This year on a smaller rink he is adapting.

Beyond Hossa I would compare him to:

Eric Daze in his prime
Malkin. Not saying he is Malkin but possesses a lot of similar qualities.
Daniel Sedin. Not as great a finisher as Daniel but an equal playmaker. Plus better speed.

I see how you're getting all pissy because I didn't agree that Cowan was the right pick but I'm a Leaf fan and I got over it. It doesn't mean Kadri or Cowan won't be good, but I just think MPS was a better choice.

Cowan is my Ulf Samulsson. A very good player in the NHL. Tough, great team player and a player every team wants. Just not a game or series changer. That's no slight.

I even think Kadri might outpoint MPS for a couple of years because of situation and opportunity. Do I think he's better? No. He takes horrible lazy penalties but he is creative and does "get involved".

I just think MPS is a D Sedin player that will go somewhat unnoticed by most until you see him win a cup.

PS: I am a Leafs fan but I am not a Sens hater. Far from it. Love EK, Rundblad, Alfie, Fisher and Lehner. Many more as well. Also like your management and their group.

One of the guys I played with at Princeton was your head scout until last year, until he took the Minnesota ASST GM position.

You are getting fired up and taking shots at me just because I disagree.

A lot of times I don't agree with Angus, trust me, but in this case i liked his comparison. Don't lump me in as a regurgiator. (I know. Not a word. But it should be.)

[Big Ev]

Wow, I wasn't taking shots at you at all, relax...I didn't even make a proper sentence. It should have been "Can I borrow your crystal ball?". You said he WILL be Hossa 2.0, like you have no doubt in your mind. Therefore, I inferred that you had a crystal ball that forsees the future, and I would really like to own one myself.

oh and the Wild assistant GM was definitely not the Senators head scout last season. Pierre Dorion has held that position for a while now. Flahr was Director of Hockey Operations

P.S. if somebody sees that I now have 3,000 posts, please don't make a 3,000 post thread for me. Thanks!

[slufoot]

I don't have all the examples but I don't think it's that high. Didn't Boyd Deveraux have an amazing WJC? Can't remember...and Shawn Matthias as well?

Just since you like to get the last word:

Boyd Deveraux in 97: 4G in 7 games (no assists)
Shawn Matthias in 08: 3G - 1A in 7 games

Hardly standouts - neither were named to tournament all star teams. When I say "stand out" I mean post ppg numbers, make a tournament all-star team, or are named player of the game multiple times - not have one great game at the tournament.

If you look through tournament all star teams over the past 10 yrs - you'll see maybe not 9/10 but 8/10 become NHL stars on their respective teams.

And for the record - Schenn, McIlrath AND Cowen were all bad picks. Any 6'2"+, 210+ lb defenceman that can skate looks like a great shut-down guy playing against 17-18 yr olds, that's why they look NHL-ready.

I'll reserve my judgement on Gudbranson as I think he's got some untapped offensive upside with that shot, and wouldn't be surprised to see him develop along the lines of a Bogosian or Souray.

[SeaDawg]

I am NOT an Oilers fan.

However, my Leafs, the Sens and especially Dallas made the WRONG choices. MPS will be Hossa 2.0.

completely agree with this