Montreal Canadiens

[ericdaoust]

I thought about the Cammalleri trade and I remembered this discusison we had a short while ago about what this team would look like in two seasons when all the bad contracts would be out of the books. We all knew that the Habs were not a true Cup contender for the next two seasons, and if this deal is an acknowledgement of this, more trades are to be expected.

I would like to update this future roster as the trades come down and analyse the implications two years down the road.

Pacioretty-(Plekanec)-(Cole)
xx-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Leblanc
xx-Bournival-White

Subban-Gorges
Tinordi-Beaulieu
xx-xx


Price
xx

1) Since the last time we took a look at this, the Habs signed Gorges to a 6 year extension, which is a good thing. Hefty price tag, but this guy is the future captain of this team.

2) The Habs traded a guy that wasn't on this line-up for a guy that will. At worst, Bourque is a 3rd liner who can chip in 20 goals. At best, he's a physical 2nd liner who can score 30. Given the lack of depth at the forward position in the minors, I don't think that getting a big winger who can score is a bad thing.

3) Money. Probably the key of this deal. This trade give flexibility to the organization to re-sign Subban and Price, two cornerstones of the future line-up.

4) 2nd round pick in a deep draft. With this pick, the Habs could land a component that could be added to this core in the years to come.

In summary, The Habs gave away the best player in that deal, no question about that. But I like all the other ramifications of the deal. I would call this trade a wash, since Calgary will probably benefit from the deal now, and the Habs will see the dividends in a couple of years.

I would like to hear what you guys think of this!!

Sure, they lost the "best player" in the deal in terms of upside. But at what price are you going to hold out for supposed goal-scoring? Cammalleri has been awful this season and has had good linemates about 95% of the time. Maybe if Gauthier held on a bit longer he could have snagged a late 1st if Cammy picked up the pace in the next month, but there's also a chance that Cammy could've had media meltdowns every day moving forward and killed his own trade value.

Also, the main element of Bourque's game that I like is, much like Cole, that he brings good skating along with his size. He can add the physical element and/or toughness without being a slug on the ice. He can keep up with guys like Kostitsyn, Eller, etc.

Now I'm not saying Bourque is a difference maker. Chances are he continues the disappearing act like he did in Calgary. But Cammalleri was prone to the disappearing act too. Regardless of what Cammy was supposed to bring to the table, it's time to move on. The Habs have a nice core of young guys coming up and it's important to free up some resources to ensure that they remain in the organization.

Back to your "down the road" predictions, I like them for the most part and encourage you to continue refining it in this thread as changes are made. There are two changes that I would make:

1) Rene Bourque is a 2nd line player on this team. Lots of cap dollars will be spent keeping the core together so I don't anticipate someone being brought in to slot in ahead of him. Unless a high draft pick emerges quickly or someone in the organization catches fire I think Bourque is on line 2 for better or for worse.

2) Louis Leblanc will develop more quickly than Brendan Gallagher. That's just my opinion of course, but this season Leblanc has looked really good and fit in nicely next to talented players. Gallagher is nice but as a depth player I'm not convinced he'll be an immediate hit.

[habs83]

When I wtached the TSN's panel yesterday, they (Ward, Crawford and McKenzie) were all stating that the Flames had the better of the deal. tHat's why I'm pleasently surprised to read this this morning. It pretty much sums up what I think about this deal.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=384950

[ericdaoust]

I think a lot of the criticism towards Gauthier comes from the fact that he is such an easy target. He deserves to be mocked.

[ross10019]

When I wtached the TSN's panel yesterday, they (Ward, Crawford and McKenzie) were all stating that the Flames had the better of the deal. tHat's why I'm pleasently surprised to read this this morning. It pretty much sums up what I think about this deal.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=384950

That's a great piece from McKenzie, no surprise there. It also meshes with my feelings, when you have a Cammalleri whose lone bright spot was the 2010 playoff performance, and (few have said) who has been quite injury prone most of his tenure in Montreal, AND who carries a $6M pricetag for 3 more years, and then you throw in that we are clearly not a playoff team this year (just starting to come to terms with that), this move makes sense.

You and Eric have made great points, I don't have much to add, but here goes:

- The 2nd rounder, in what may be a deep 2013 draft, is great, particularly since I don't see the Flames making the playoffs in 2013 and so it could easily turn into a top 10 pick in the 2nd round. In addition, such a pick could be quite valuable, moreso than most years, from a trading perspective. So Habs (I hope, at this point) could trade for some high draft picks this year and have multiple picks in a couple of strong draft years.

- The locker room. Cammalleri, early on, was by all accounts a good locker room presence - when he was first signed, you could feel his spirit come out in the interviews and it was obvious that there was a fit there, especially his explanations for signing with the Habs (something like, how can you not go to the most storied orig 6 team there is). But he has always been nagged by crticism of his selfish behavior - when that tag comes from one or two media sources, you always take it with a grain of salt, but in his case I've heard it from a variety of sources, mostly reliable media types. A player like that, on a team that needs to maintain a strong and united locker room to rein in the ebulient Subbans of the world, cannot make do with a guy like Cammy for more than a short term. His public comments, misinterpreted as they may have been, were the last straw in that regard.

Now, as much as I agree with trade, I'll once again crap all over Gauthier - simply put, it's possible to be a GM that projects an exceptional blend of incompetence and arrogance and yet make a few good moves. In this case, as in the Halak case, while the return he got was good, he made the AMATEURISH decision not even to call around the league offering up Cammy! This could be wrong, but when McKenzie postulates it it's probably right. I don't care how good a deal is, when you are trading high impact valuable starpower pieces like Halak and Cammalleri, you start creating an auction of sorts! Or at least you call a few of the GMs you trust most, the guys you know will be discrete among other virtues, and you ask them point blank if they're interested and what they'd be prepared to give. Christ, any FANTASY GM worth a pitcher of spit knows that!

Suffice to say, at this point, I hope these are the next steps, probably in this order:

- Sign Price to massive long term deal, no matter the cost.

- Sign Subban to reasonable medium term deal, expiring before he becomes UFA, or to a bargain long term deal (although he's unlikely to agree to that).

- Sign AK46 for two more years at around the same price.

- Trade Moen and Gill for draft picks.

- Tank the season.

- Buy out Gomez.

- Fire Gauthier. And do it the same way he did it to Pearn and Martin, in a most callous and arrogant way, maybe invite him to Queue de Cheval not far from the Bell Center on a beautiful night, have him arrive about 30 minutes after you, order a steak for yourself and a great bottle of wine and then, when he arrives, just before you start eating and drinking, tell him, in a very loud voice within earshot of all the patrons, "You're fired, seeya later."

- Hire Carbonneau.

- Possibly sign one high profile young free agent in the offseason, only if he clearly meshes with the team makeup and you've already signed Price and Subban.

- Hopefully pick up a gamebreaker with the high 1st rounder we get assuming we tank nicely, which his our best bet.

- For 2012/2013, play the hell out of guys like Eller, Patches, Desharnais, Leblanc, Subban, White, Gorges, as this will be your core for years.

[ericdaoust]

A couple points of my own:

1) Don't sign AK. Trade him for the best possible return. I know the guy has talent, but he is stuck in 20-25 goal mode and doesn't bring enough intangibles to justify the slumps. The Habs had a team full of the home-run hitter types that have ups and downs, and I think the Habs would be better served to find an underrated foot soldier on the UFA market.

2) I think Michel Therrien is the next coach. His first day on L'Antichambre on RDS was the day after Jacques Martin was fired. He has been there quite often since that time. I do not think that is a coincidence.

[habs83]

A couple points of my own:

1) Don't sign AK. Trade him for the best possible return. I know the guy has talent, but he is stuck in 20-25 goal mode and doesn't bring enough intangibles to justify the slumps. The Habs had a team full of the home-run hitter types that have ups and downs, and I think the Habs would be better served to find an underrated foot soldier on the UFA market.

2) I think Michel Therrien is the next coach. His first day on L'Antichambre on RDS was the day after Jacques Martin was fired. He has been there quite often since that time. I do not think that is a coincidence.

1) Still on the fence with AK. His production is on par with his pay check, but his inconstancy is maddenning. Seems to have nice chemistry with Eller though. I wuold trade him at the deadline because he could fetch a decent draft pick, and then see this summer if there is a possibility to bring him back at a reasonnable price.

2) You beat me to it. Therrien is my choice. He deserves a second chance.

[ericdaoust]

1) Still on the fence with AK. His production is on par with his pay check, but his inconstancy is maddenning. Seems to have nice chemistry with Eller though. I wuold trade him at the deadline because he could fetch a decent draft pick, and then see this summer if there is a possibility to bring him back at a reasonnable price.

He has good chemistry with Eller today. But what's important is next season and beyond. Line combinations rarely carry over from one season to another since so many changes take place every offseason. It's also worth noting that Eller/AK have Moen on the other side who will likely be dealt so they lose some "chemistry" by default.

[habs83]

He has good chemistry with Eller today. But what's important is next season and beyond. Line combinations rarely carry over from one season to another since so many changes take place every offseason. It's also worth noting that Eller/AK have Moen on the other side who will likely be dealt so they lose some "chemistry" by default.

Like I said, I hope they trade him this season for the best possible return. Then, in the offseason when he'll be an UFA, see the options around and evaluate if he could be brought back given the right deal. Not a priority at all, just an option. I realize that players that were trade by a team at the deadline rarely come back the summer after. But AK's production, despite his inconstancy, is on par with his 3.25M$ paycheck.

[ross10019]

I say sign AK to another short term deal. He might catch fire with the young guys all around him, and when he wants to he is a dominant power forward, banging heads and firing lasers at stunned goalies. Not worth letting him go for what we'd get for him right now.

I forgot to add, for my anti-Gauthier rant, how facking stupid can you be to trade a guy but let him play in the game that night??? What a joke.

[ericdaoust]

I forgot to add, for my anti-Gauthier rant, how facking stupid can you be to trade a guy but let him play in the game that night??? What a joke.

Gauthier was probably playing Grand Theft Auto in the back and thought it would be fun to kidnap him during the second intermission.

[ericdaoust]

If you guys want a long read, check out this well-written article about the downfall of the Canadiens' organization:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/magazine/201..._empire_joyce/

[ericdaoust]

For the legions of you waiting for the good news, Scott Gomez makes his highly anticipated return tonight.

[ericdaoust]

It's pretty rare to see a game where the Habs are the better team on the ice, but tonight that was the case. I thought the team showed a ton of intensity and created scoring chances all night. Craig Anderson was the difference. He was a wall.

Carey Price did his best to keep the team in the game while Anderson was stopping everything. Price did as much as he could stopping 23 of 25 and stopped the first two shootout attempts before Daniel Alfredsson scored to win the game.

The Habs still lack a team-wide scoring touch. On the better teams everyone is able to chip in goals. The Habs miss too many golden opportunities. There is no killer instinct on this team and because of it the good efforts usually go to waste.

PK Subban had his best game in a long time, including a disallowed goal due to Andrei Kostitsyn getting in the way of Anderson. Subban still finished with six shots on goal and his offensive creativity was on full display.

Erik Cole was upset after an altercation with Erik Karlsson where Karlsson grabbed Cole by the head and was called for a minor penalty. Cole was visibly upset about this and was throwing big hits the rest of the game. He was only credited with three but I counted at least five.

Tomas Plekanec had a great game with his one setback being a double-minor for high sticking. He had a goal, +2, 4 PIM, 5 shots, 14/27 faceoffs. He was especially effective killing penalties.

Cole along with Desharnais and Pacioretty had a strong game as a unit and Pacioretty tied the game 2-2 with under a minute to play. It was a great night for the trio as they combined for 10 shots.

I am declaring a new term: the Gomez Hat Trick. That is achieved by finishing with 0 goals, 0 assists and 0 shots. Tonight's Gomez Hat Tricks: Mathieu Darche, Travis Moen, Petteri Nokelainen and, coincidentally, Scott Gomez.

Gomez returned after sitting out the last 13 years. In 17 minutes he did next to nothing.

Josh Gorges had another warrior-like game with five blocked shots. Give him the C already.

[ross10019]

If you guys want a long read, check out this well-written article about the downfall of the Canadiens' organization:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/magazine/201..._empire_joyce/

I had read it. The prose is certainly impressive, and he does make some good points, but I stopped counting the number of laughable comments - Price "enigmatic" - Ryan Walter and Rick Green characterized as "spare parts" or something like that - the insistence on that whole "Habs had dibs on best Quebeckers" thing which was largely a fallacy - too many others to mention.

And then this whole idea that the 86 and 93 Cup wins were "flukes". Gimme a break, in 86 it was one of the better teams in the league and we rode an excellent rookie goalie, many examples of that before and since. In 93 the only lucky party was some good teams getting eliminated such that it was down to Leafs or Kings once it got to the finals, but that also has happened many times before and since. Both Cup wins were inspired efforts, and in no way lesser than many of the Cup victories before and since.

At some point, he writes about how the fans are out of it, that the Bell Center is not an exciting place to play or some such thing. Ridiculous. He clearly hasn't been to a game because, this last 20-30 games aside, it has been one of the best venues in the league. Was he there for the 2010 playoffs? It was insanity.

And "the team doesn't have emerging prospects like Hopkins or Seguin" What? I mean, how many teams have guys like that? And don't Price and possibly Subban come close, Price with a fantastic start to his career for such a young guy? Instead, he says they have "a few young players with low ceilings."

He could have written a much shorter article, as follows:

- Habs are a dynasty, but it comes to an end with a goaltending gaffe by Denis Herron to the North Stars and the dream of a 5th straight cup is gone.

- Habs slide into a bit of a mediocre stretch, but that mid to late 80s see their fortunes revived and the team is stocked with good vet and young talent backed by a phenom goalie.

- 1986 win followed by tough 1989 Cup loss and then 1993 Cup win seals Roy's status. Lots of stars on that 93 team, Leclair, Desjardins, Scheider.

- Savard, already having traded Chelios in a horrible move (only to be defeated by the Roy trade in terms of sheer stupidity), now lets Schneider and Lemieux go. Then, in some fit of insanity, he trades Leclair, Desjardins and Dionne for Recchi and a 3rd - as well as Recchi played for us, it was a brutal trade.

- Savard and Demers gone, which makes sense, but hiring of Houle and Tremblay the first of a series of astoundingly stupid moves, begins the great downfall. A decade of ineptitude ensues, with the culmination the worst trade in history, a gaffe of monumental proportions by all involved, Roy and Keane (captain!) gone.

- Gainey era, positive developments but so far little to show for it and the huge gamble that was the Gomez signing blows up dramatically, especially given McDonagh's emergence as a legit top 2 dman in New York. With Cammy now traded, we have to look at Gainey's tenure as a significant failure despite some good moves (Gill signing, Gionta signing, Plekanec extension, Eller acquisition) and a close call in the 2010 playoffs). And the replacement with Gauthier is the end of that era, as he will be gone very soon.

- Now, we look to a bright future, despite the current troubles. Hoefully a Mackinnon is added to the fold beside Gallagher, Beaulieu, Subban, Gorges, Price, Pacioretty, Eller, Kristo, Tinordi and we can see the evolution of a future Cup contender happen before our eyes. All we need is to tank, and now!

I was there, at the Forum, on the night that the building was closed and the torch passed to Turgeon. It was an incredible, and moving, experience. Sitting next to me in the stands was Tom Johnson, a Canadiens' great who ha since passed away. The organization had put former players in seats all over the Forum, to sit there with the fans. I'll never forget it, and the Richard ovation was the climax. Yes, it is disappointing to see what has happened to the team since, but it's also possible to overstate the magnitude of the problem - I look to the future, like so many other teams that are forced to accept that the current team is just not good enough, and I like what I see, not dynasties but teams that are fun to watch and a rocking Bell Center for years to come.

[ross10019]

Great read Eric, thanks. The Gomez Hat Trick, love it! For fantasy, the Gomez Hat Trick guys are the most annoying to own, aren't they!

Was it tongue in check when you wrote that Gomez returned after sitting out the last 13 "years"?

It's pretty rare to see a game where the Habs are the better team on the ice, but tonight that was the case. I thought the team showed a ton of intensity and created scoring chances all night. Craig Anderson was the difference. He was a wall.

Carey Price did his best to keep the team in the game while Anderson was stopping everything. Price did as much as he could stopping 23 of 25 and stopped the first two shootout attempts before Daniel Alfredsson scored to win the game.

The Habs still lack a team-wide scoring touch. On the better teams everyone is able to chip in goals. The Habs miss too many golden opportunities. There is no killer instinct on this team and because of it the good efforts usually go to waste.

PK Subban had his best game in a long time, including a disallowed goal due to Andrei Kostitsyn getting in the way of Anderson. Subban still finished with six shots on goal and his offensive creativity was on full display.

Erik Cole was upset after an altercation with Erik Karlsson where Karlsson grabbed Cole by the head and was called for a minor penalty. Cole was visibly upset about this and was throwing big hits the rest of the game. He was only credited with three but I counted at least five.

Tomas Plekanec had a great game with his one setback being a double-minor for high sticking. He had a goal, +2, 4 PIM, 5 shots, 14/27 faceoffs. He was especially effective killing penalties.

Cole along with Desharnais and Pacioretty had a strong game as a unit and Pacioretty tied the game 2-2 with under a minute to play. It was a great night for the trio as they combined for 10 shots.

I am declaring a new term: the Gomez Hat Trick. That is achieved by finishing with 0 goals, 0 assists and 0 shots. Tonight's Gomez Hat Tricks: Mathieu Darche, Travis Moen, Petteri Nokelainen and, coincidentally, Scott Gomez.

Gomez returned after sitting out the last 13 years. In 17 minutes he did next to nothing.

Josh Gorges had another warrior-like game with five blocked shots. Give him the C already.