2011 crop

[Hollywood]

Some people say it's the worst draft class in years. Do you agree? To me, it seems that there's 7-8 guys fantasy-relevant but other than that, not much. Do I have it good or am I mistaking?

Thanks for the reply.

[SeaDawg]

I think the 2011 draft is going to be decent, but not great. I don't necessarily think the 2010 draft was great either though. The high end talent is very good, with the likes of Couturier, Larsson, and Nugent-Hopkins. Then you have many other great talents like Landeskog, Saad, Ambroz, and Murphy. Then you have your late risers like Prince, Armia, and Strome. Plus, some great late first/early second round steals like St. Croix and Rattie. Maybe the draft isn't as deep as past years, but I still think there are plenty of great prospects available. The closer we get to the draft, I think we are seeing more prospects step up and the 2011 draft is going to be typical of most other drafts.

[JD88]

I am glad that I was not the only person thinking this. I have an entry player draft only and I have been trading my picks in deals for younger proven players based on the fact that I too think this is going to be a bad draft!

[wendelclark17]

I have to to say I dont fully agree with you guys. I think sometimes when there is not a bonafide #1 or #1/2 race some people mistake that for being weak. I prefer when there are 5 players with a shot at the #1 spot because that means positional needs come into count rather than just best player available. From what I have been reading about the upcoming draft it promises to be a great first round , with maybe some drop -off after that. However it seems like every year at least 5 or 6 guys come out of almost nowhere to become first rounders, it is still very early and I think by the time the draft rolls around we will end up with as good a top 10 as we have seen in recent years. I can't really speak to the lower rounds as I havent done enough research into the lesser prospects but they often make their names in the final year before the draft.

[Dean Youngblood]

I am pretty certain that this is NOT a bad draft. Actually, it's filled with a TONNE of good talent which makes it incredible DEEP. However, I think for the first time in a few years we aren't going to see that STUD player and there will be a lot of josling (spelling?) before the draft as to who goes 1, 2, 3, etc.

Adam Larsson has to be the favourite but anyone with a top 10 pick is getting someone good.

I think people are misinformed about the 2011 Draft. It's not bad, it's just deep with lesser high profile names. Think 2003 draft (MAF, E Staal, Perry Richards Carter, etc etc. ) and hope it becomes that successful

I did read that a lot of GMs are planning on holding onto their 2011 2nd round picks because they know they are much more valuable in a deeper draft class like the 2011s

EDIT: Wendel is essentially saying what I feel is correct too.

[SeaDawg]

Just to reiterate what I was saying, I think the draft will be decent, but not great. And in the end it will be typical of most of the recent drafts. If you look back at the last 5 or 6 drafts, only the 2009 draft (to me) stands out as a "great" draft. The other drafts were typical and similar to what we can expect of the 2011 draft. That is, they were good drafts, relatively deep, but not "great" drafts. I certainly would not call the 2011 draft weak, as some people have been doing.

2003, btw, was likely one of the best drafts ever. I don't think 2011 will be that good.

[Dean Youngblood]

2003, btw, was likely one of the best drafts ever. I don't think 2011 will be that good.

Neither do I. I was comparing the two because of the depth.

[wendelclark17]

ok so while we are on the topic of the 2011 draft here are a couple of things io came across today

first on hockeybuzz.com i only copied the rankings but there is some commentary as well.

Central Scouting Bureau ranks top draft-eligible OHL players:

ONTARIO HOCKEY LEAGUE

SKATERS

1 Gabriel Landeskog Kitchener LW 6-foot-1/4 207
2 Brandon Saad Saginaw LW 6-foot-1 1/4 208
3 Dougie Hamilton Niagara D 6-foot-4 1/4 193
4 Ryan Strome Niagara C 6-foot-1/4 183
5 Vincent Trocheck Saginaw C 5-foot-10 184
6 Tobias Rieder Kitchener C 5-foot-10 1/2 176
7 Boone Jenner Oshawa C 6-foot-3/4 194
8 Ryan Murphy Kitchener D 5-foot-10 1/2 194
9 Nicklas Jensen Oshawa LW/RW 6-foot-2 1/4 188
10 Matthew Puempel Peterborough LW 6-foot 198
11 Vladislav Namestnikov London C 5-foot-11 1/2 170
12 Alexander Khokhlachev Windsor C/LW 5-foot-10 188
13 Stefan Noesen Plymouth RW 6-foot-1/4 195
14 Rickard Rakell Plymouth RW 6-foot-1/4 191
15 Scott Harrington London D 6-foot-3/4 207
16 Daniel Catenacci Sault Ste. Marie C 5-foot-9 1/2 176
17 Lucas Lessio Oshawa LW 6-foot-3/4 196
18 Shane Prince Ottawa C 5-foot-10 181
19 Mark Scheifele Barrie C 6-foot-1 1/2 177
20 Nick Cousins Sault Ste. Marie C 5-foot-10 1/2 166
21 Garrett Meurs Plymouth C 5-foot-10 1/2 169
22 Anthony Camara Saginaw LW 6-foot-1/4 194
23 Michael Curtis Belleville LW 5-foot-11 3/4 182
24 David Broll Erie LW 6-foot-1 1/2 216
25 Austen Brassard Belleville RW 6-foot-2 191

GOALIES

1 Jordan Binnington Owen Sound 6-foot-1 3/4 160
2 Matt Mahalak Plymouth 6-foot-1 3/4 183
3 Matej Machovsky Guelph 6-foot-1 3/4 191
4 Michael Morrison Kitchener 6-foot-1/4 177
5 Tadeas Galansky Saginaw 6-foot-3 1/4 186
6 John Chartrand Niagara 6-foot-1/2 185
7 Tyson Teichmann Belleville 5-foot-11 3/4 140
8 Frank Palazzese Kingston 5-foot-11 3/4 154


thought it was interesting that I also read on Yahoo and saw on CC that Don Cherry thinks Ryan Murphy will go first overall. The kid is tearing it up from the blueline this year and he is only ranked eigth on the CS list in the OHL and grapes thinks he will go first overall. I know the kid is from Kingston and Cherry loves the K-town so it must be taken with a grain of salt. But my point is that if a guy ranked 8th in the OHL scouting list has the potential to go first overall (according to grapes) than i think it will be quite a strong draft year.

[DuklaNation]

I typically avoid goalies & d-men that are highly ranked as they are more risky and tend to develop slowly. I measure a draft by the # of 6'1-6'3 forwards that are skilled and can skate in the top 20. There are other factors but that is a starting point for me. obviously a lot of other guys can succeed but the risk increases.

This draft looks kind of average to me but not as bad as predicted. Kind of similar to last year minus the top 2 but not as deep. Meaning, the top ranked forwards all seem to lack something. Strome & Saad stick out as interesting picks so far.

But to answer your question, I think there are more than 7-8 guys that are fantasy relevant. Its definitely not a great draft though. In my league, protecting prospects is much more difficult than your avg league on this site. Therefore, picking prospects is much harder as they need to produce within a short time frame, ie. why I concentrate on forwards. So Im very picky about who I would draft as an 18 yr old.

[SeaDawg]

DY...I just sent you a PM...I have a big favor to ask. Hope you don't mind.

[rainydrinkwater]

Don Cherry thinks Ryan Murphy will go first overall. The kid is tearing it up from the blueline this year and he is only ranked eigth on the CS list in the OHL and grapes thinks he will go first overall.

Murphy will not go 1st overall. However, I do believe that he will be picked just outside of the top three (Larsson, Couturier,RNH). The kicker for me is, although Murpphy game is nowhere near as well rounded or defensively sound (that's why Larsson will be drafted in the NHL ahead of Murphy) as Larsson's is, I feel that as we get closer to the draft, many fantasy G.M's are going to wonder if Murphy offensive upside is greater than that of Larsson, and I might be in that boat.

I have'nt looked at the 2011 draft depthwise, but I do feel the the very top of the field (yop 2-3 picks) are nowhere near as strong as they have been in recent years (2010-Hall, Seguin 2009-Tavares,Hedman 2008-Stamkos, Doughty). IMO, the top three for this year, do not have as much luster as the very top of the field in previous years. What do you guys think?

[rainydrinkwater]

I typically avoid goalies & d-men that are highly ranked as they are more risky and tend to develop slowly. I measure a draft by the # of 6'1-6'3 forwards that are skilled and can skate in the top 20. There are other factors but that is a starting point for me. obviously a lot of other guys can succeed but the risk increases.

This draft looks kind of average to me but not as bad as predicted. Kind of similar to last year minus the top 2 but not as deep. Meaning, the top ranked forwards all seem to lack something. Strome & Saad stick out as interesting picks so far.

But to answer your question, I think there are more than 7-8 guys that are fantasy relevant. Its definitely not a great draft though. In my league, protecting prospects is much more difficult than your avg league on this site. Therefore, picking prospects is much harder as they need to produce within a short time frame, ie. why I concentrate on forwards. So Im very picky about who I would draft as an 18 yr old.

I can't say this bad strategy as in general, I can't disagree that forwards are the fasest/safest to develop, but that means that you have missed out on guys like Doughty, Karlsson and this year's Murphy. Especially in today's NHL skating trumps size by an enourmous amount when determining what will help a player to make pro.

[SeaDawg]

I have'nt looked at the 2011 draft depthwise, but I do feel the the very top of the field (yop 2-3 picks) are nowhere near as strong as they have been in recent years (2010-Hall, Seguin 2009-Tavares,Hedman 2008-Stamkos, Doughty). IMO, the top three for this year, do not have as much luster as the very top of the field in previous years. What do you guys think?

We've certainly been spoiled in recent years with the likes of Stamkos/Doughty (might be one of the best top 2 picks ever), Tavares/Hedman, and Hall/Seguin. But I do believe that Couturier, Larsson, and RNH are special talents too.

And I disagree with your assessment that Murphy might have a higher offensive upside than Larsson. Maybe Murphy is flashier and therefore might appear to have a higher upside, but Murphy is more like Niedermayer and Larsson is more like Lidstrom. Which of those two would you say has/had a higher upside? They are two different players and a lot of their potential upside will be based on which team drafts them and the talent surrounding them.

[rainydrinkwater]

Interseting take Dawg.

I completely agree that we have been spoiled with the very top of the draft class in the last few years, but I feel this years top three are less sureshot type deals.

As far as the Larsson/Murphy disscussion, I admit, I only ever watched Larsson play at last years world junior's and he was very impressive for his age, but it looked as though his offense was limited (at such a young age, it's more than likely the coaching staff held the riegns on him a bit). I have watched Murphy play (live twice this year), and although his skating is comparable to Niedermayer,s (although Murphy might be faster), thier games, once they get ointo the offensive zone are very, very different. Like night and day. Niedermayer would gear into the offensive zone then slow things down to his pace and pick out his options. Murphy, in the offensive zone is more comparable to Mike Green I feel, in the sense that it's all pressure all the time. He never stops moving his feet, and 3/4's of the time he leads the rush.

I have heard the Larsson to Lidstrom comparrison's and (again, I've hardley watched Larsson play) I'm not saying it isn't possible, but in the last 5-7 years, Iv'e read about numerous young Swedish blueliners who were to the next Lidstrom. In fact, almost all of them recieved some type of Lidstrom comparisson. It's just that Larsson's game is so all around, and Murphy's so onedimensional, I don't doubt that Larsson will be a higher pick and a better NHLer, but a pure PP quarterback...the jury is still out for me.

[SeaDawg]

I hear what you are saying, rain.

I like both prospects for sure (Murphy and Larsson). And it will be interesting to track their careers. I also quite like the Green comparison for Murphy. I don't think Murphy has Green's offensive upside (and I know you weren't suggesting that anyway), but what I like most about the comparison is that, like Green, people question Murphy's defensive-awareness. There is a reason Murphy won't make Team Canada while Murray (a year younger) might. I think with Murphy, there are question marks about his game and style of play. Will it transition to the NHL level? Maybe, maybe not. I hope so for his sake. The NHL could use more skill and no doubt Murphy has a ton of skill.