Holtz , Benson, Stankoven

[Tiramisu]

If you think it amounts to the same thing, you absolutely missed the point of my post.

Holtz did do very well in the AHL. He scored at a 0.94 PPG pace down there. That is solid. The point I think you missed however, is that Stankoven is scoring at a 1.24 PPG pace in the AHL and leads the league. That is considerably better than Holtz. So to clarify a bit further - If Holtz and Stankoven were in the AHL at the same time, I would prefer the player scoring at a 1.24 PPG pace over the one at a 0.94 PPG pace.

Now Benson I have at the top of the three. At 18 years old the team elected to keep him in the NHL and not send him down after 11 games. He has not looked out of place, and continues to impress from what I’ve seen. Over the next 2-3 seasons, I see him having the highest upside and the easiest job solidifying a top role with his team.

As a Holtz owner I’m sure you are very invested in him, and that is what makes fantasy hockey so fun. But as someone who does not own any of the 3, this is my opinion from the outside looking in.

So I own Htz AND Stankoven so thats not the bias there.

I'll try saying this a different way- im guessing you have Stankoven higher because you're envisioning him Stutzling his way into a ppg territory by next season? I just dont see it- I'm a huge Stankovem fan but his size is a legitimate issue AND he faces a ton of competition. The reality is he'll probably spend next season getting his feet wet 30-50 games 12 minutes a night and then by next season were lookimg for 40-50 without much powerplay exposure...

OR

Said another way- just about exactly what we've seen out of Holtz the last two years lol! Thats what I mean by shiny new toy- most poolies feel the way you do but its because nobody wants to accept that 95% of prospect will face genuine hurtles making it into the NHL, finding a way to stick and get icetime and then finding a way to score. Whats happening with Holtz will almost certainly happen to Stankoven- its a pretty standard process/timeframe- but poolies will.alqays insist that the next big thing is "too talented to struggle" and I dont mean to be the bearer of bad news but its an argument thats chalk full.of wh9les. Elias Petterson, Nathan Mackinnon, Jack Hughes- they all took the long way. I'm going to bet Stankoven does too just like Holtz IS doing lol!

If you're rankimg guys higher- its cause you're buying into the hype- and fair enough but when the dust settles very very few players take the Stutzle route to instant relevance and trying to predict a lottery outcome. If 19 out of 20 elite prospects take 3 years to acclimate to the NHL- I'm just going to factor that into my rankings. All three guys have elite upside but I think you'll have 2-3 years of "meh" fantasy results with any of them. In their prime I think they end up very close and I'm just skipping the part where I rank Stankoven higher because I really really want him to be a big impact out of the gate. You rank them.how.you like though- and I'm sure most peiple.would end up closer to your way of thinking lol! I've been at this a long time though and to me Holtz is two years further along and imho a lot closer to giving a team real results.

Youre not saying anything really controversial- and most people would agree with you BUT this is sort of a perfect example. Just ask yourself the following questions:

Did Holtz have as much upside at the same age?

Does either guy have an upside that is dramatically higher than the other?

Are you expecting Stankoven to dominate right out of the gate? If so why?

You see what Iean? Then in two years when Stankovem is finally getting a real shot in the top six- the next guys going to rank Demidov (or anyone really) substantially higher and just saying whats the point? Lol- talented ayers need time to develop- thats all were seeing woth Holtz- its just odd hed lose value for going through the same process everyone else on this list will go through simply because hes further ahead. It just feels counter intuitive.

Anyways thats all I got- im not trying to change anyone's mind and I get where you're coming from- I.just dosagree- thats all. Tc!

[zambronies]

So I own Htz AND Stankoven so thats not the bias there.

I'll try saying this a different way- im guessing you have Stankoven higher because you're envisioning him Stutzling his way into a ppg territory by next season? I just dont see it- I'm a huge Stankovem fan but his size is a legitimate issue AND he faces a ton of competition. The reality is he'll probably spend next season getting his feet wet 30-50 games 12 minutes a night and then by next season were lookimg for 40-50 without much powerplay exposure...

OR

Said another way- just about exactly what we've seen out of Holtz the last two years lol! Thats what I mean by shiny new toy- most poolies feel the way you do but its because nobody wants to accept that 95% of prospect will face genuine hurtles making it into the NHL, finding a way to stick and get icetime and then finding a way to score. Whats happening with Holtz will almost certainly happen to Stankoven- its a pretty standard process/timeframe- but poolies will.alqays insist that the next big thing is "too talented to struggle" and I dont mean to be the bearer of bad news but its an argument thats chalk full.of wh9les. Elias Petterson, Nathan Mackinnon, Jack Hughes- they all took the long way. I'm going to bet Stankoven does too just like Holtz IS doing lol!

If you're rankimg guys higher- its cause you're buying into the hype- and fair enough but when the dust settles very very few players take the Stutzle route to instant relevance and trying to predict a lottery outcome. If 19 out of 20 elite prospects take 3 years to acclimate to the NHL- I'm just going to factor that into my rankings. All three guys have elite upside but I think you'll have 2-3 years of "meh" fantasy results with any of them. In their prime I think they end up very close and I'm just skipping the part where I rank Stankoven because I really really want him to be a big impact out of the gate. You rank them.how.you like though- and I'm sure most peiple.would end up closer to your way of thinking lol! I've been at this a long time though and to me Holtz is two years further along and imho a lot closer to giving a team real results..

I really don’t think you read, and/or understood my post as we just seem to be going in circles here. With that, I will happily agree to disagree here and hope you enjoy the rest of the weekend! Cheers!

[zambronies]

Stankoven sure has looked good so far….

[finnys_fanatsy]

all too young to rank properly for me. im betting in 2-3yrs you wouldn't be able to pass a toothpick thru the differences in point production.

ranking for the sake of ranking:

Holtz
Benson
Stank

[Pengwin7]

Stankoven
Benson
Holtz

A lot of this is team upside/opportunity.

I really doubted hard on Stankoven - but everything I've seen suggests he's going to be good scoring NHLer.
Dallas is still a deep team with balanced attack.
Pavelski may be retiring this summer and Duchene probably moves on to a team that offers him big money.
This opens up a LOT of minutes for Stankoven, but I'm not sure if that opportunity beats what Holtz could have.

I like Benson, I think he's going to be a good player... but BUF just has too much of a logjam of talented forwards.
As a Peyton Krebs & Jiri Kulich owner, this team looks 3 lines deep for next 5 years.
If you own any of their forwards, you just don't love this for ice-time.

Hard to be big on Holtz when they have 4 forwards making $7m+.
That's your PP1 forwards: Meier, Hughes, Bratt, Hischier.
If one gets injured or moved though... boy... I'm all over Holtz really fast.
It's happened before. A trade. A major injury.

Next 3 years:
Pegged Scoring / Upside


Stankoven 65 / 85
Benson 60 / 70
Holtz 55 / 95 (if he were to nose onto PP1... 10% chance in that though)

[rataylor22]

Benson
Stankoven
Holtz

I don't think there is a clear tier break between the first two and Holtz, and I wouldn't add a significant asset to Holtz to get either, but I do think the first two will separate themselves from Holtz in the next few years. People can whine about players deployment all they want, and I do think Ruff has made some mistakes with Holtz, but at the end of the day Ruff has generally trusted young players with ice time and Holtz hasn't earned it yet. Even if you personally disagree, one coach has made that assessment and there is a pretty easy scenario where the next coach makes that assessment too. So far that assessment hasn't happened with Benson and hasn't happened with Stankoven (in a much smaller sample).

As for the competition piece....I mean yes, but Benson has so far beaten out that competition and I see no reason to think he won't continue to. Quinn has to show he can stay healthy and that his injuries wont have changed his abilities. Benson has consistently beat out Savoie in Kootenay and so far in Buffalo. And Skinner is in his decline phase and Tuch doesn't have the offensive talent to keep up with Benson.

[Darkwing Puck]

I'm pretty sure Stankoven is the best player in the NHL.

[Axeman33]

I still prefer Stankoven over Benson but it's close. Holtz is lagging way behind these two at this point and I dont see that changing anytime soon. Potential trade could help boost his value but as it stands today, he's not in this conversation.

[SeaDawg]

Stankoven

smallish gap

Benson

significant gap

Holtz

[zambronies]

Benson and Stankoven continue to impress!

[Bubba55]

Holtz!! Why, cause I own him and I don't own Benson or Stankoven. Simple as that! Holtz, seriously........please god make it so.

I have to agree with the consensus here, but I'm far from giving up on Holtz, I think he can be as good or better than the other two, but he needs something to happen to put him on a surer and more progressive career path. Further, we have all seen young guys flourish early on only to take a step or two backwards before they get things fully sorted out and back on track and that is a real possibility that both Benson and Stankoven are potentially susceptible too. We'll see in a year or two, but ya, right now, I'd rather own the other guys ...............

[Tiramisu]

It could STILL be Holtz lol!! I own stankoven so.im covered- :P but my earlier point still stands- they're all basically 90+ assets who just need the right situation to thrive.

I'll even agree with the order others have listed but I just dont think its time to wrote Holtz off yet- if you give an honest eye to the CONTEXT of his situation
... hes still got a real shot!!

But yea stanky leg has looked great...

[zambronies]

It could STILL be Holtz lol!! I own stankoven so.im covered- :P but my earlier point still stands- they're all basically 90+ assets who just need the right situation to thrive.

I'll even agree with the order others have listed but I just dont think its time to wrote Holtz off yet- if you give an honest eye to the CONTEXT of his situation
... hes still got a real shot!!

But yea stanky leg has looked great...

I think based on what the original poster asked, ranking Holtz a step below the other two is the right move. But to your point, there are many players I have been high on early in their careers that fizzle out, and players I have been lower on that turn into studs. So there is definitely a universe where Holtz turns into the top player here in the future.

[Tiramisu]

Agreed - hes a clear 3 today but in a fan of nuance myself- I get the impression from your post you are too- im just saying the big roulette wheel in the sky could land on any three of these guys and id be ok with it....

[Belexus75]

I think based on what the original poster asked, ranking Holtz a step below the other two is the right move. But to your point, there are many players I have been high on early in their careers that fizzle out, and players I have been lower on that turn into studs. So there is definitely a universe where Holtz turns into the top player here in the future.

I personally think he is as skilled as other 2 with few extra tools in his toolbox, but his opportunity is hindered atm. With Toffoli moving on, atm there is a spot in top 6 doe him next year. However, NJ's moves over the summer will dictate how they feel about it. If they bring in someone else i will start to worry about Holtz. Otherwise im still very optimistic he will be close to what his buddy Raymond is.