Stankoven vs Johnston

[rtstr]

Who's the better Stars asset in 3 years?

[Pengwin7]

Real NHL value: Wyatt Johnston, clearly
Fantasy value: Wyatt Johnston

To be honest, I don't have a proper read on Stankoven.
He's a small offensive dynamo who lit up the WHL in two years post draft as an overager.
Jayden Halbgewachs did that too. (And if you are saying "Who?"... that's OK.)
Also... Kyle Crnkovic.

The kid can place a puck... I'm just not sure his tools are a lock at NHL-speed.

Some video there for people to make their own decisions:



[For me, there's just not enough here that works at NHL-level. Some of it... not all of it]

[chuckcouples]

Stankoven is the horse I would bet on here. He's more risk but way more potential reward. Let's not forget that he lit up the WHL in his draft season as well at 1.67 points per game. He was also the best player at the World Juniors last season. Bedard was useless until Canada switched the lines and put him with Stankoven.

Stankoven is a stud.

[random-d]

Stankoven is the horse I would bet on here. He's more risk but way more potential reward. Let's not forget that he lit up the WHL in his draft season as well at 1.67 points per game. He was also the best player at the World Juniors last season. Bedard was useless until Canada switched the lines and put him with Stankoven.

Stankoven is a stud.

He nearly made the roster last year and he's improved his game since then. I don't think he can be held back this year. Elite prospects has a great analysis of how he's modified his game to be more versatile and adaptable on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7_zA8WV5Q

I'm probably biased as an owner, but I can't find anything not to like with this guy.

[Pengwin7]

This will be an interesting one to see.

I'm really not a fan of the smaller CHL players that seem to generate a lot of points off tight-finesse-offensive zone moves.
Stankoven, Savoie, Benson.
[people were all gaga over either a Savoie or Benson windy rookie-camp clip that got to twitter. That's a nothing clip for me.]


I'm truly interested to see if that translates to the NHL.
Sort of similar thing with Lane Hutson.

These guys are great amongst 17-20 year old (CHL) or 18-23 year olds (NCAA)...
But is that same shiftiness going to work in NHL.

Are there players in NHL that have emerged with such small-frame shiftiness?
Maybe they aren't coming to me off top of my head.
I feel like this hasn't been shown to work effectively... yet... in the NHL.

I mean, DeBrincat is small - but it's not the shiftiness to his game that makes him NHL-caliber.


We'll see.
I posted similar thing on a twitter thread today.

Pretty nice list here by NHL Network... but I do really challenge the slots of Stankoven(12), Benson(19), Hutson(26), and Savoie(27).
https://twitter.com/NHLNetwork/statu...36010410328066


[not saying these guys won't be players... just doubting whether what worked for them so well in CHL/NCAA will translate to NHL. If not, then a certain amount of their (p)NHLe has to be sliced-off.]

[M3taM3dia]

Do smallwr guys struggle that way? For me the issue is that Stankoven is not a handler or a finisher like say a Gabe Perrault- hes an elite play driver. Hes not just above average either- his whole game is predicated on it. Scouch went on at length on his scouching podcast about how his size would likely translate just fine because hes able to process the play in every zone, think he said he "solves problems all the way up the ice". Hes not a pure finisher by any strecth (and i dont just mean goals- i mean some some smaller players find ways to "gwt lost" in the offensive zone and capitalize- thats not stankoven).

The comparable your looking fornis Caufield. Again not in terms of being a pure sniper but in terms of being an effective play driver among bigger players.

Ftr theres a lot of smaller players I worry about too- butbStankoven is not one of them.

Ftr hes built like a brick shit house :P

[ross10019]

This will be an interesting one to see.

I'm really not a fan of the smaller CHL players that seem to generate a lot of points off tight-finesse-offensive zone moves.
Stankoven, Savoie, Benson.
[people were all gaga over either a Savoie or Benson windy rookie-camp clip that got to twitter. That's a nothing clip for me.]


I'm truly interested to see if that translates to the NHL.
Sort of similar thing with Lane Hutson.

These guys are great amongst 17-20 year old (CHL) or 18-23 year olds (NCAA)...
But is that same shiftiness going to work in NHL.

Are there players in NHL that have emerged with such small-frame shiftiness?
Maybe they aren't coming to me off top of my head.
I feel like this hasn't been shown to work effectively... yet... in the NHL.

I mean, DeBrincat is small - but it's not the shiftiness to his game that makes him NHL-caliber.


We'll see.
I posted similar thing on a twitter thread today.

Pretty nice list here by NHL Network... but I do really challenge the slots of Stankoven(12), Benson(19), Hutson(26), and Savoie(27).
https://twitter.com/NHLNetwork/statu...36010410328066


[not saying these guys won't be players... just doubting whether what worked for them so well in CHL/NCAA will translate to NHL. If not, then a certain amount of their (p)NHLe has to be sliced-off.]

Fair points but how do you explain a guy like Caufield? Just an outlier?

[Axeman33]

I see a LOT of Brayden Point in Stankoven's game. A lot!

As far as comparing these two Stars players and who will be the better one in a few years, man that's tough. Johnston has the jump on him on development but I do think Stanky will eventually catch him. I dont know who can answer this question confidently at this point.

[random-d]

Fresh off the web from the Athletic.

1. Wyatt Johnston, C
5/14/2003 | 6-foot-1 | 185 pounds | Shoots right
Drafted: No. 23 in 2021
Tier: Bubble NHL All-Star and top of the lineup player
Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: Above NHL average
Hockey sense: Above NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average
Analysis: Johnston’s development arc keeps trending upwards, as he had another great season, this time in the NHL. He made Dallas out of camp as a 19-year-old, and then proceeded to play a notable role on a very good NHL club including scorign 24 goals. He’s a player with outstanding skill and vision. He makes so many tough plays with the puck on his stick through defenders or to his teammates and can run a power play at a high level. He is also a competitive player who doesn’t shy from taking pucks to the high-traffic areas and wins a lot of puck battles. His only downside is a lack of a seperation gear, but everything else about him points to a true top-of-the-lineup forward, who may be a No. 1 center.
2. Logan Stankoven, C
2/26/2003 | 5-foot-7 | 170 pounds | Shoots right
Drafted: No. 47 in 2021
Tier: Top of the lineup player
Skating: High-end
Puck skills: Above NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average
Shot: Above NHL average
Analysis: Stankoven had a marvelous junior career full of accolades as he gets set to turn pro next season. He has a ton of skill and natural scoring ability. He attacks with pace and a direct style of play. He can make plays and has a great shot from range. He’s tiny though by NHL standards and how his game will translate is a reasonable concern. Typically, small guys like Stankoven who light up junior don’t become great NHL players. But I think he has the traits to become the outlier. He’s a very competitive player who wins a lot of battles, brings it every night, and his game has a ton of speed/pace in it. I think he’s going to be a major part of an NHL lineup and score a lot in the league, likely on the wing even though he’s been a center for a while.

[PicklePickle]

My favorite prospect in the NHL is Stankoven but I think Johnston is safer.

[random-d]

Interesting that Pronman graded out Stankhoven's skillset slightly better but called Johnston the higher rated player. Presumably based on Johnston having already played games. Normally Pronman gives the edge to the better skater, which is obviously Stankhoven here.

[Pengwin7]

For me - smaller players have made it in the NHL when their shot is top-end, which is DeBrincat and Caufield.
I think people tend to lump undersized prospects together... but, for me, Savoie/Benson/Stankoven are not the same type as DeBrincat and Caufield.

Stankoven is this "buzzing bee" - which works really well against CHL-level kids.
I just don't know how well it works against NHL-men.

With prospect analysts... I tend to prefer the outlook on the elders who've been around and understand the jump.

I'll say it again - but these "shifty" type undersized player/playmaker types (without ELITE shot)... Have we seen one truly succeed in the NHL?
(DeBrincat and Caufield are snipers.)
I've watched a lot of Stankoven and I would NOT say he has a "great shot from range" - like Pronman does. It works at CHL level. I don't see him having a "great shot from range" at NHL level. His tight-angle one-timer on a PP is good - but most players being drafted 1st & 2nd round can do that these days with adequate practice... and I'm sure many can do it with more zip.


re: Pronman. I used to like him, I don't any more. He's too forward-centric and too "elite skating"-centric.
A player needs to be able to skate at NHL level to make it... but skating at above NHL-level doesn't amount to surer production.
A guy like Matt Boldy is not an elite skater. Once that puck is in the offensive zone - it's hands and hockey IQ... the skating is not so important.

Case-in-Point is what we are seeing with Wyatt.

1. Wyatt Johnston, C
5/14/2003 | 6-foot-1 | 185 pounds | Shoots right
Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: Above NHL average
Hockey sense: Above NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average

[random-d]

Most people tend to agree that Stankhoven's shot is above average at minimum. I mean he's scored 79 goals in 107 regular season games the last 2 seasons to go with 27 goals in 31 playoff games over the same span.

I agree on Pronman, I think he's a bit of a shill nowadays. His analyses seem lazier and little more than a cursory evaluation coupled to a lot of hedging with "ifs" and "buts". He does tend to overemphasize skating as well.

[p7staxc]

Who's the better Stars asset in 3 years?

Another vote for Stankoven here. I like the comparable with Brayden Point.

[Pengwin7]

Most people tend to agree that Stankhoven's shot is above average at minimum.

Maybe.
He can definitely pick a corner.
But there's not NHL-level "zip" to it... IMO.
It may be enough... CHL-level goal-scoring doesn't always translate though.
I've referenced it before - but Jayden Halbgewachs scored 120 goals across two WHL years.
He's only 5'-8"... and these days... he's in Sweden.