16 team leagues, goalie shortages?

[J0e Th0rnton]

Usually we play in 12 team leagues. This year we expanded to 16 teams (1 year league). The goalie pressure was felt early on in the draft. Some teams do not even have full starters because they waited too long.

12 skater Categories to 6 Goalie categories so only 33% of the cats are goalies.

However.....

Am I crazy for thinking within the first month of the season workhorse goalies values are going to skyrocket when Injuries or riding the hot hand start and folks are coming up short on weekly starts?


I grabbed Saros, Carter Hart, Samsonov and Gibson in net. Forwards, Crosby, Hertl,Caufield, William Karlsson, Dylan Strome, Giroux, Kempe, Jonathan Toews, Blake Coleman, Dmen, Dobson, Seth Jones, Ferraro, Larsson

Saros and Carter in the first 3 rounds, Samsonov and Gibson later. My reasoning for Carter Hart is Tortorella tends to get his teams playing strong defensive systems and I think he will bounce back and be a workhorse. Its not like the old days when every team had a guaranteed starter. 55/45 Splits are more common for goalies now.

I've gotten a few offers for a goalie now, and my gut tells me to wait and that goaltending will be at a premium more as the first few months roll on. I have no experience with the routine of a 16 team league though. So i will ask the experts lol


Roster Positions: C, C, LW, LW, RW, RW, D, D, D, Util, Util, G, G, BN, BN, BN, BN, IR+, IR+, IR+, IR+
Forwards/Defensemen Stat Categories: Goals (G), Assists (A), Plus/Minus (+/-), Penalty Minutes (PIM), Powerplay Goals (PPG), Powerplay Assists (PPA), Shorthanded Points (SHP), Game-Winning Goals (GWG), Shots on Goal (SOG), Faceoffs Won (FW), Hits (HIT), Blocks (BLK)
Goaltenders Stat Categories: Wins (W), Losses (L), Goals Against Average (GAA), Saves (SV), Save Percentage (SV%), Shutouts (SHO)

[J0e Th0rnton]

Anyone here with experience in 16 team leagues?

[tweetdrivr]

Your Fs are a little thin as is your D. You’ll be a little light on hits and PIMs as well. Hart was not a good choice in the top 3 rounds. He’s going to kill your rate stats and not win much. I don’t know why people keep expecting a rebound from him. It’s not going to happen, particularly on this depleted Flyers team. If someone makes you a decent offer for him take it. Saros should be money.

[stevegamer]

I think you're right on the goalie value. I've played in 12 team dynasty leagues with minors that were so deep, any fringe prospect that got called up was grabbed immediately. Sometimes they'd hold down a job, and be even more valuable.

I'd expect some craziness going on. I'm least certain of Gibson, honestly. Stolarz outplayed him last year, and Gibson hasn't been good for a while.

[Invictus]

I'd be hoping Hart does well vs NJD and VAN (isn't out of the realm of possibility) and try and trade before facing TBL.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Your Fs are a little thin as is your D. You’ll be a little light on hits and PIMs as well. Hart was not a good choice in the top 3 rounds. He’s going to kill your rate stats and not win much. I don’t know why people keep expecting a rebound from him. It’s not going to happen, particularly on this depleted Flyers team. If someone makes you a decent offer for him take it. Saros should be money.

Debating the Tortorella affect on teams and how good Carter Hart is is polarized. My Opinion is there is nowhere to go but up for that team and historically, Tortorella's team defense mentality has always helped goalies and teams punch above their weight. The guy is short term gain for long term pain, but he has a track record of turning chicken Shit into Chicken salad. he managed to get good offensive seasons out of Wennberg and Sam Gagner the next year(Actually the 2 best seasons those guys ever had)

Players tire of him quickly. but usually give it their all for a year or two under him unless they are prima donna's. And usually unexpected guys end up having rebounds under Tortz.

Columbus top line was Atkinson, Saad and jenner and their top 2 Dmen were Ryan Murray and Denis Savard when Tortz took over. They were very much better after they bought in and despite losing 7 games in a row before Tortorella, finished with a winning record. And the next year, they were Monsters. And that was before Panarin arrived.

[Pengwin7]

16-team x start 2G leagues are brutal/awful... exactly because of what this does to goalie value.
The goalie value of early-drafting, holding is only so good as to what it *might* bring you in return.
If you draft a 4th goalie in round 7... and it ends up netting you a skater that went in round 5... yeah, you "gained" in team value.

I used to do a redraft/1-year league where this one GM (ugh) would draft 5+ goalies in first 8-10 rounds...
Just to hold them as "asset value" on some GM that fell behind pace on GP for roto.

This is "bush league" IMO... you're playing to win a hockey pool on stock-market supply/demand shit... rather than your hockey drafting knowledge.

I mean... it can work... and everybody can have opinion on what is fair/right/fun for a league.
But I didn't like it. I want to do fantasy hockey leagues with guys that like hockey... not with guys that want to show how they can execute an algorithm strategy towards human behavior of leaguemates.

Rant over.

Summary: Yes, goalie value in 16-team start 2G leagues is sky-high. As long as somebody is willing to pay for this high-goalie value, then holding/having them will pay benefits. If you are just holding excess all year, you're doomed.

[J0e Th0rnton]

16-team x start 2G leagues are brutal/awful... exactly because of what this does to goalie value.
The goalie value of early-drafting, holding is only so good as to what it *might* bring you in return.
If you draft a 4th goalie in round 7... and it ends up netting you a skater that went in round 5... yeah, you "gained" in team value.

I used to do a redraft/1-year league where this one GM (ugh) would draft 5+ goalies in first 8-10 rounds...
Just to hold them as "asset value" on some GM that fell behind pace on GP for roto.

This is "bush league" IMO... you're playing to win a hockey pool on stock-market supply/demand shit... rather than your hockey drafting knowledge.

I mean... it can work... and everybody can have opinion on what is fair/right/fun for a league.
But I didn't like it. I want to do fantasy hockey leagues with guys that like hockey... not with guys that want to show how they can execute an algorithm strategy towards human behavior of leaguemates.

Rant over.

Summary: Yes, goalie value in 16-team start 2G leagues is sky-high. As long as somebody is willing to pay for this high-goalie value, then holding/having them will pay benefits. If you are just holding excess all year, you're doomed.

I am the opposite. I think the human element is in important and fun part of Fantasy strategy.

To be fair, yes I was thinking of goalie Value and insurance when I drafted Gibson last among my goalies. Its my first time in a 16 team league and it was a non snake draft, so those drafting late(I drafted 13th out of 16) didn't snake and have a disadvantage to those who drafted early. it was round 8 and he was just a better option than the forwards and Dmen available at the time. The 2 picks directly before me took Craig Anderson and Zucarello and the pick after me took Nedejkovic and then the next guy took Klingberg. Its a league with banger categories too, so I was hazarding a guess Gibson might enable me to negotiate later and deny certain folks who decided to go ham on forwards and D and neglect their G. Its not like NHL GM's don't take the best player available in a draft if they think they can convert him lol

Last year it was a 12 team league and Even 3 goalies wasn't enough due to COVID sometimes. Why SHOULDN'T I deny other managers a goalie if the opportunity presents itself? Some guys who drafted earlier than I did went with 2 superstar skaters in the first and 2nd round and neglected Goalies. A lot of them groaned when I took Gibson because they expected him to fall further and hoped to grab him late and now they have to gamble on backup goalies. If I got lucky and drafted higher in the draft its entirely possible I would not have bothered with Gibson. But it was non snake and I was a late drafter so i am put at an immediate disadvantage.

And yeah, We also all like hockey lol. We have a forum with a chat channel and we watch games together while in chat and watch prospects together at least 4 nights a week.. its possible to enjoy the metagame of Fantasy and still like Hockey.

[stevegamer]

I think the OP is right about doing what you need to do to deny others an asset, especially if we're talking about a 3rd or 4th goalie in a 16 team start 2 league.

Now that my two 16 team dynasty drafts are done, I can talk a bit more about those. I just joined a second one run by the same guy, and while you can see some posts in the goalie forum where I'm asking about prospects, I was a bit vague.

In a 16 team league, and particularly a dynasty, good goalies are almost mandatory to compete. In one of my 2 16 team leagues, the waiver wire is: Vejmelka, Varlamov, Mrazek, Stolarz, Raanta, Anderson as the top 6 guys on the wire, and it drops off precipitously from there. The other league has acouple more guys since the minors are shallower, but still only Vejmelka & Allen as starters, and goalie hoarding isn't possible there, we're limited as many from one NHL team as e want plus one other goalie active, with IR & Minors not counting towards that rule.

Regarding Hart/Tortorella: I think Torotrella will be good for the Flyers defensive schemes. However, the team hasn't truly bottomed out yet. The team might improve a little, but the talent is far worse than going into last year, at all 3 levels. Fletcher is a huge liability as a truly utterly incompetent GM.

[IngeTheHammerStrom]

The issue to me is the league set-up. Fantasy Hockey should somewhat represent what is happening in the NHL. Teams in the NHL do not come up short 40 GP's in Net as they always find a solution. No other position has this issue - so why do leagues create this problem with Goalies? If 16 team league, it would be basically impossible for all teams to get to 164 games played. The league should set a realistic target (120GP's) or a number that allows GM's to make decisions and not deal with complete lack of options to fill-in. I was in a league like this, my Starting Goalie was hurt, someone else had both back-ups so I was basically done 3 weeks in and knew I could not compete.

Everyone has their opinion but artificially creating position scarcity by setting up the league with GP's that is not possible to be met is not a league I participate in.

All IMO

[stevegamer]

The issue to me is the league set-up. Fantasy Hockey should somewhat represent what is happening in the NHL. Teams in the NHL do not come up short 40 GP's in Net as they always find a solution.
All IMO

I'm waiting to see if the Flyers this year break their own record for number of goalies used in a season. The backup is currently Troy Grosenick, a 32 year old with 4 NHL starts.

[Invictus]

Summary: Yes, goalie value in 16-team start 2G leagues is sky-high. As long as somebody is willing to pay for this high-goalie value, then holding/having them will pay benefits. If you are just holding excess all year, you're doomed.

That's the key. Someone wants to try and be fancy and scheme to hoard the goalies for trade... the rest of us can scheme to not worry about his goalies. Gameplay is the same for us - he loses since he can't compete in the skater cats.

[J0e Th0rnton]

That's the key. Someone wants to try and be fancy and scheme to hoard the goalies for trade... the rest of us can scheme to not worry about his goalies. Gameplay is the same for us - he loses since he can't compete in the skater cats.

I don't think carrying 4 goalies is going to hurt me much with as opposed to 3. Not with how many bench spots we have.

The folks who only have, say, MAF and Varlamov, or will have a bit more stress making their weekly minimum starts, or the guy carrying murray, desmith, Skinner and mrazek is also carrying 4 goalies like I am. But 2 of them are flat backups

[J0e Th0rnton]

That's the key. Someone wants to try and be fancy and scheme to hoard the goalies for trade... the rest of us can scheme to not worry about his goalies. Gameplay is the same for us - he loses since he can't compete in the skater cats.

For the record, I did end up getting Elias Petterssen for Gibson lol

[stevegamer]

For the record, I did end up getting Elias Petterssen for Gibson lol

That was very, very well done.

I may be joining a larger than 16 team dynasty where the goalies on the orphan team are utter trash and the wire is barren, plus it's a cap league. Will need to re-read this thread if it occurs.