WOW... Lias Andersson throws medal into crowd!!

[Daydream Nation]

Just a few examples.

You can quote me but you are taking me out of context. I disagree with your labeling that it was immature and petulant. He threw a medal away after doing his obligatory handshakes. I loved the passion for winning and disgust in losing that it showed but that doesn't mean I necessarily approve it or would encourage it. If it came down to my children or players I coach I would tell them to take the medal home. You can put it in a drawer and never look at it again but by throwing it away publicly you'll receive criticism. But if my daughter did the same exact thing after a Tae Kwon Do competition, I would be so proud of her. And then we would have a long conversation about winning, losing, and optics.

[Wonko]

You can quote me but you are taking me out of context.

I don't see how I took your statement out of context, but whatever. It is all right here on this thread for anyone to read if they wish to do so. As for optics, that is a politicians game in my opinion. Actions should be judged on their moral merits, not on how they might be perceived and interpreted by others.

At the end of the day it is obvious we both have different values and different parenting styles. That's fine. Different strokes.

All conversation on this topic aside, I wish you and your daughter nothing but the best. Hope you and your family have a fantastic New Year Daydream.

[Ingolo]

It is easier to tone it down than to build it up.

Depends when you learn it, which was the point I was making. Teach kids to be classy athlete's, and the ones who grow up into the public lens of the game will show their classy side. Guys like Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, they're all fantastic competitors with all the drive in the world, but in a post game interview, even when they lose and they're frustrated, they keep their cool. They make good role models.

At the end of the day though, I think that the different perspectives people are showing are like political opinions. Everyone's is a little different for different reasons, and odds are even reasoned arguments from either side isn't going to change minds. Myself, I see the argument, I would just be disappointed if my daughters acted like this, and would feel I had failed to teach them humility. Like I was saying, we out our kids in sports (we as in my wife and I) to build confidence, have fun, make friends, and get exercise. For me, knowing how to be a gracious loser is part of that. I see the attitude of "if I can't win, why bother playing" as pretty entitled. Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you didn't learn anything or have fun trying.

Again though, I look at this and see the image it sends to my kids, and the perception this gives me of the player from the perspective of an employer (hard to detach myself from the hiring mentality, I've worked in HR too long). Other people, other priorities. That doesn't mean I think those other perspectives are right though. Hah.

[Wonko]

Depends when you learn it, which was the point I was making. Teach kids to be classy athlete's, and the ones who grow up into the public lens of the game will show their classy side. Guys like Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, they're all fantastic competitors with all the drive in the world, but in a post game interview, even when they lose and they're frustrated, they keep their cool. They make good role models.

At the end of the day though, I think that the different perspectives people are showing are like political opinions. Everyone's is a little different for different reasons, and odds are even reasoned arguments from either side isn't going to change minds. Myself, I see the argument, I would just be disappointed if my daughters acted like this, and would feel I had failed to teach them humility. Like I was saying, we out our kids in sports (we as in my wife and I) to build confidence, have fun, make friends, and get exercise. For me, knowing how to be a gracious loser is part of that. I see the attitude of "if I can't win, why bother playing" as pretty entitled. Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you didn't learn anything or have fun trying.

My sentiments exactly.

[Fast Tony DeNiro]

Like I was saying, we out our kids in sports (we as in my wife and I) to build confidence, have fun, make friends, and get exercise. For me, knowing how to be a gracious loser is part of that. I see the attitude of "if I can't win, why bother playing" as pretty entitled. Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you didn't learn anything or have fun trying.

I think this is where the disconnect is happening. When it comes to children, sure. We want them to make friends and have fun when they play games. But that mentality doesn't really translate to a 19 year old, NHL drafted young adult, playing in a high stakes tournament for his country.

I don't have an opinion on what Anderson did. It happened, I don't really care either way about it. But you can't compare the morality of a 7 year old losing a soccer game at the playground (my daughter is 7 so I'm using that age as an example) with a 19 year old losing on the World stage.

The entire point of sports at the highest level is to win. Lias Andersson did not go out there against team Canada to get in a fun skate, become friends with Carter Hart, and work his cardio. Just like Sidney Crosby or Lebron James do not do those things. They are there to win.

[reggiebarnes]

I think this is where the disconnect is happening. When it comes to children, sure. We want them to make friends and have fun when they play games. But that mentality doesn't really translate to a 19 year old, NHL drafted young adult, playing in a high stakes tournament for his country.

I don't have an opinion on what Anderson did. It happened, I don't really care either way about it. But you can't compare the morality of a 7 year old losing a soccer game at the playground (my daughter is 7 so I'm using that age as an example) with a 19 year old losing on the World stage.

The entire point of sports at the highest level is to win. Lias Andersson did not go out there against team Canada to get in a fun skate, become friends with Carter Hart, and work his cardio. Just like Sidney Crosby or Lebron James do not do those things. They are there to win.

Actually they are there to make money

[Ingolo]

I think this is where the disconnect is happening. When it comes to children, sure. We want them to make friends and have fun when they play games. But that mentality doesn't really translate to a 19 year old, NHL drafted young adult, playing in a high stakes tournament for his country.

This is where I stand though: Andersson is a role model. Whether he thinks he is or wants to be or not, he is one to lots and lots of Swedish kids. Thus, I see it as his responsibility to present a positive image, whether that image be that of a humble winner, or a gracious loser. I'm not making a judgement call as to whether or not I would feel the same way, I'm making a judgement call about the optics of what he did. By all means, make a statement along the lines of "we didn't do well enough, silver isn't good enough for me, so I don't want to keep my medal." Tossing the medal into the stands sends the message that you can't separate emotions from thoughts. The kids working the counter at Tim Horton's have more self control than that (seriously, watch them the next time they get yelled at by a customer), and not only that, but we expect folks in the service industry to take every little frustration and annoyance and bury it under a fake smile. If the 16 year olds working fast food can do it, the kid who literally has someone coaching him on how to react in those situations should be able to. It doesn't mean I think he should accept losing, but I do expect people I consider role models to do better than to throw a tantrum because they didn't win. It just sends the wrong message. He's at work while he on the ice, and I don't think it's asking a lot for professionalism.

I'm also not saying that parents shouldn't parent. What Daydream Nation said about seeing the behaviour and then parenting your kid so they understand whether that's acceptable or not is spot on. Parents should do that as a matter of course; but when a kid is watching the game with their team, they may not have that mature voice in the room to clarify the nuance of the situation.

Also, like I said, this is my opinion for the reasons I've talked about. I fully understand people who don't think it's as big a deal, or that he did nothing wrong, because I'm sure those people have different priorities than me. Heck, even other parents might feel differently and I understand that as well. We live in a world where multiple viewpoints exist, it just depends on what means you feel justify the ends you're after. No reason to be angry that someone else doesn't want to live their life the same as you, so long as they're not hurting anyone.

[rataylor22]

I would feel like I failed as a parent if my child threw his or her silver medal away in the manner Lias did. Winning is not everything. That fact that you and some of the other members on this forum see nothing wrong with this type of behavior is a sad commentary on today's society.

I would feel like a failed parent if my child felt it was alright to anonymously attack a 19 year old kid on an internet forum because their actions didn't line up with my own personal morals, but hey, I guess we're just different like that.

I am not being hyperbolic at all. It is disappointing to find that so many folks would see nothing wrong with their children displaying this type of second place is for losers behavior. But then again, we live in Trump's America now so nothing truly surprises me anymore.

All I am saying is that hundreds of thousands of kids watching the game learned a valuable lesson. Second place is for losers. Carry on.

Call me a romantic but I believe hockey can be a classy sport and there are a number of professional players who are quite classy on and off the ice. There is no need for cheap shots and players purposely trying to injure one another. All the classy folks can do is attempt to educate these antiquated voices of dissent and endeavor to lead by example.

Lol. Trump's America? What a hyperbolic social warrior you are. Call you a romantic? Jesus. I'm embarrassed for you. Second place is for losers. That's a much more valuable lesson for kids to learn than everyone gets a participation trophy, nobody can win or lose, don't even keep score, don't want anyone's feelings to be hurt.

I guess this: https://www.wakingthered.com/2016/2/...er-loss-to-usa is a product of Trump's America too lol.

Sounds like quite a few folks here think that we should do away with all medals other than the gold medal. Winning is everything. Save the Olympic committee some money on their crappy consolation prizes for second and third. Only the winner should garner any acclaim. Got it.

Just to be clear, when Andersson threw his medal into the crowd it barely made a blip on my radar. A young kid doing young kid things in the heat of the moment. No big whoop.

The issue I have is with the adults with no skin in the game who approve of and or encourage this type of petulant and immature behavior. Some here seem to act as though Lias graciously accepted the medal and then lovingly handed it to a small crippled child in a wheel chair. Not the case. He grudgingly accepted the medal with disdain, trying to take it in his hand rather than around his neck, and took it off immediately in obvious disgust. He then threw it over the glass and into the crowd in an act of childish defiance with no thought to the fact that it may have actually hurt somebody. Nothing about this behavior showed any class. Kids will be kids in the heat of the moment. Adult arm chair quarterbacks should know better, however.

The issue I have is "supposed" adults with no skin in the game who call this petulant and immature behavior because it doesn't line up with their own personal morals.

The complaint that he could have injured someone is the only rational complaint on the act. Everything else is social justice noise, with you feeling it's your right to dictate was is and isn't "classy", what is and isn't "immature". Childish defiance? Come on.

[Wonko]

Ah, Rat tail. You amuse me so. Thanks for the chuckles. I hope you and yours have a great 2018.

[rataylor22]

Not his job, no. But it might effect how his future employers treat him. There's lots of players who never really seem to make it because their attitude doesn't mesh with the team. If he's willing to do this in an internationally televised game, what's he going to say to the press? This is a situation that teams spend money teaching players to handle. There's an image most teams want to project, and being a good role model to kids is generally a part of their community outreach.

Being a pro athlete makes you a role model in our society, whether players like it or not. If you're going to make millions of dollars playing a kid's game, you should be showing kids how to do it well, and have fun doing it. Because really, it's a game 99% of kids play for fun, for exercise and to make friends. Not every kid is going to be a pro.

Depends when you learn it, which was the point I was making. Teach kids to be classy athlete's, and the ones who grow up into the public lens of the game will show their classy side. Guys like Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, they're all fantastic competitors with all the drive in the world, but in a post game interview, even when they lose and they're frustrated, they keep their cool. They make good role models.

At the end of the day though, I think that the different perspectives people are showing are like political opinions. Everyone's is a little different for different reasons, and odds are even reasoned arguments from either side isn't going to change minds. Myself, I see the argument, I would just be disappointed if my daughters acted like this, and would feel I had failed to teach them humility. Like I was saying, we out our kids in sports (we as in my wife and I) to build confidence, have fun, make friends, and get exercise. For me, knowing how to be a gracious loser is part of that. I see the attitude of "if I can't win, why bother playing" as pretty entitled. Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you didn't learn anything or have fun trying.

Again though, I look at this and see the image it sends to my kids, and the perception this gives me of the player from the perspective of an employer (hard to detach myself from the hiring mentality, I've worked in HR too long). Other people, other priorities. That doesn't mean I think those other perspectives are right though. Hah.

I can quite confidently say this will have no impact on his future employ-ability.

Athletes are not role models. Athletes are athletes. It is not their responsibility to show kids the "fun" way to play competitive sports. They're paid millions of dollars to play a "kids" game to make their owners millions more and to win, not to teach kids anything. If you saw your daughter act like this, and that disappointed you, that is YOUR failing as a parent, not Andersson's failing as a supposed "role model". Stop trying to pass the buck. If you as a parent cant overrule the sway of a single athletes actions, than you've failed as a parent.

You have your kids in sports for much much different reasons than the reason Lias Andersson is playing hockey at the WJC. If you want athlete's to be role models for your kids, then choose athlete's who act the way you think is appropriate and teach your kids why. That doesn't make anything Andersson did wrong, or classless, or immature just because it doesn't line up with your morals. What's wrong is attacking him for doing something that doesn't line up with your morals.

[rataylor22]

Ah, Rat tail. You amuse me so. Thanks for the chuckles. I hope you and yours have a great 2018.

Ah wonko. More personal attacks. I certainly hope you teach your kids to be better than you.

[Wonko]

And with his important work completed here Rataylor22 allowed himself a brief satisfied smirk before resuming his selfless and lonely task of pursuing justice on forum boards around the world wide web...

[Axeman33]

Ah wonko. More personal attacks. I certainly hope you teach your kids to be better than you.

Im not sure I see a personal attack in the quote you replied to.

[Rylant]

Bob McKenzie, one of the most respected people in the world of hockey, on Andersson throwing his medal into the stands:

1. It’s an emotional game
2. They’re just kids, living and learning.
3. Lias is a fantastic kid and a great player.
4. He could play on my team, if I had one, any time.

Rylant

[rataylor22]

Im not sure I see a personal attack in the quote you replied to.

Yes, I’m quite sure “rat tail” was in no way intended to be derogatory.