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Thread: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

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    Default What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    Such as Defence or Goalie runs. Do you go with the run since that position is getting depleted quick or what are your thoughts on "runs" in general?

    For instance; in my $250 1 year pts pool there was a huge defence run in about the 5th or 6th round where 12 picks/16 were defence. Now wouldn't it be smart to go with the run and pick a defenceman in that range before it gets depleted too much because the forward group left will basically be filled with the same value forwards the next round?

    Am trying to pick out a perfect strategy (13 forwards - top 11, 3 defence - top 2, 2 goalies - top 1) but was thinking something like this

    (ROUNDS)

    1. Forward
    2. Goalie
    3. Forward
    4. Forward
    5. Defence
    6. Forward
    7. Forward
    8. Defence
    9. Forward
    10. Forward
    11. Forward
    12. Forward
    13. Forward
    14. Forward
    15. Spare Forward
    16. Spare Goalie
    17. Spare Defence
    18. Spare Forward

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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    Honestly....the best strategy is no strategy. I would throw out that structure you posted only because you never know who will land in your lap.

    To me...dmen are like QBs in NFL. If you miss the top few....WAIT. Let people go on a run and just take the best player available.

    As for goalies. Depends how big your league is but I tend to want at least 1 top 5 goalie. In a yearly league I'll definitely try to grab 3 bonified starters because I know I can flip them for a major asset. Except that year I dealt Vezina winning Tim Thomas for Mike Green 1 year removed from his 70 point season.

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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyrobot View Post
    Honestly....the best strategy is no strategy. I would throw out that structure you posted only because you never know who will land in your lap.

    To me...dmen are like QBs in NFL. If you miss the top few....WAIT. Let people go on a run and just take the best player available.

    As for goalies. Depends how big your league is but I tend to want at least 1 top 5 goalie. In a yearly league I'll definitely try to grab 3 bonified starters because I know I can flip them for a major asset. Except that year I dealt Vezina winning Tim Thomas for Mike Green 1 year removed from his 70 point season.
    In this league you can't trade, once you own a guy you keep him. No IR, no adding or dropping once your guy is selected. Last season we had 16 managers but looks like we could get 18. The trouble I have is deciding when to take a goalie and how important they are to have compared to getting a top forward in the 1st Round. I would feel much safer having a top 5 goalie like you said though. At the moment in our set up (win 2 pts, OTL 1 pt, SO 1 pt) I have it ranked

    (all subject to change)

    Rank GOALIE RANKING
    1 Braden Holtby (WSH)
    2 Cam Talbot (EDM)
    3 Sergei Bobrovsky (CBJ)
    4 Devan Dubnyk (MIN)
    5 Matt Murray (PIT)
    6 Carey Price (MTL)
    7 Tuuka Rask (BOS)
    8 Martin Jones (SJS)
    9 Corey Crawford (CHI)
    10 Jake Allen (STL)


    Last season to my surprise the draft went

    1. Carey Price
    2. Braden Holtby
    3. Ben Bishop
    4. Patrick Kane
    5. Sidney Crosby <--- me


    Now would you say goalies value in this league is diminished slightly since there are going to be roughly 15-18 managers, 2 goalies per team, Top goalie points wise counts for your team? Price ended up with roughly 70 some pts, Holtby had 99 or so I believe and Bishop hardly had any but that was injury related.

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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    I make tiers that are run-proof, affording me the option of taking a playing in the "run" or deciding that there's a better target.
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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    supply and demand - theres less valuable G/D around than abundant players with predictable point ranges of 40-60 so once you get past the basic high end forwards and goalies there tends to be a D-run .

    I wouldnt necessarily call it ''following a run'' if you were already targeting a D during said run -- just pick the right one

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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    Quote Originally Posted by RizzeeDizzee View Post
    I make tiers that are run-proof, affording me the option of taking a playing in the "run" or deciding that there's a better target.
    This. If a run happens, no since picking a lower tiered player just for the sake of getting a defensemen when better forwards/goalies are available. Tiers in my opinion are a perfect draft strategy. You already have your rankings, now just slot them into tiers.

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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    Agreed that this is the key to runs. With Forwards and D-men there are essentially an infinite (more than will be picked at least) number of players so at anytime you can pick one. The key to tiers is that they let you look at similarly ranked players, if a run occurs and there is a player left in the tier grab him but if the tier runs out you don't just grab the next player available.

    Goalies are different because there are only 31 (still weird to type 31!) starters, and only 25-26 undisputed starters. So there are less than 2 true starters per team. With your setup I think you have 2 options: top-6 goalie and low level goalie, in this case the low level goalie only really covers against a catastrophic injury, or grab 2 guys ranked 7-15 guys and hope one excels. Which strategy you employ will likely come down to your draft position.

    In this league I think an ideal strategy would be to calculate the replacement value (I realize you can't make moves so first guy not picked) value and make most picks against that value while considering tiers as well.
    i.e. 11 F x 16 = 176 Forwards, 2 x 16 = 32 D 1 x 16 = 16 G picked.

    I went with the number that scores and not the number selected because the scoring is what’s important, the extra depth of non-scoring players is more insurance in my mind.
    The 176th Forward had 33P, the 32nd Dman had 38 P, the 16th Goalie had 57P (Didn’t do all the Math, Brian Elliott was 16th in W). So, if you’re the last guy to pick at this position that is what you can anticipate getting.
    Top Point getter in 2017: F-100, G-99, D-76.

    Each round I’d compare the best available pick per position vs the waiver wire number and take the highest spread, I would be willing to forgo a few points if it meant getting the last or 2nd last of a tier before a dramatic fall-off.
    So If I get the 1st overall Pick I’m taking McDavid (projecting another 100 point season) because he bests the waiver wire (33P) by 67P, top goalies beat by about 42, Burns (or top-D of your choice) by 44points.
    Because you choose so many forwards I’d continue to hammer forwards early unless I can get one of the 3 (in my view) truly elite D-men (Karlsson, Burns, Hedman). Also I’d keep an eye on the top-16 goalies and make absolutely certain I had one clear cut starter, and then try and get another top-24 clear cut starter to cover injuries.
    In conclusion I wouldn’t be looking to take a goalie first unless a top-6 (I like your 6) goalie fell to me and their wasn’t an 80 point player left. Regarding D unless a top-3 guy fell to me I’d probably wait and take 3 guys you have projected for 45+ points, you can probably steal them late. I don’t see if necessary to be a part of a D-man run when there is a large group from 45-38 points, Frankly I’d rely upon (your) ability to grab the right one of the group.
    12 team H-2-H 1 year league, daily roster changes, 3 goalie start minimum/week
    2xC, 2xRW, 2xLW, 4xD, 3xUtil, 2xG, 5 Bench
    G, A, P, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, W, SV%, GAA, SVs
    C: C. Keller, C. Mittelstadt, B. Nelson, R. Strome,
    LW: K. Connor, B. Tkachuk, J. Gaudreau, J. Marchessault, E. Rodrigues, A. Lafreniere
    RW: K. Fiala, J. Bratt, T. Jeannot V. Arvidsson
    D: R. Josi, J. Trouba, E. Gustafsson,
    G: L. Thompson, F. Gustavsson, V. Vanecek
    NO IR

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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    Quote Originally Posted by LawMan View Post
    Agreed that this is the key to runs. With Forwards and D-men there are essentially an infinite (more than will be picked at least) number of players so at anytime you can pick one. The key to tiers is that they let you look at similarly ranked players, if a run occurs and there is a player left in the tier grab him but if the tier runs out you don't just grab the next player available.

    Goalies are different because there are only 31 (still weird to type 31!) starters, and only 25-26 undisputed starters. So there are less than 2 true starters per team. With your setup I think you have 2 options: top-6 goalie and low level goalie, in this case the low level goalie only really covers against a catastrophic injury, or grab 2 guys ranked 7-15 guys and hope one excels. Which strategy you employ will likely come down to your draft position.

    In this league I think an ideal strategy would be to calculate the replacement value (I realize you can't make moves so first guy not picked) value and make most picks against that value while considering tiers as well.
    i.e. 11 F x 16 = 176 Forwards, 2 x 16 = 32 D 1 x 16 = 16 G picked.

    I went with the number that scores and not the number selected because the scoring is what’s important, the extra depth of non-scoring players is more insurance in my mind.
    The 176th Forward had 33P, the 32nd Dman had 38 P, the 16th Goalie had 57P (Didn’t do all the Math, Brian Elliott was 16th in W). So, if you’re the last guy to pick at this position that is what you can anticipate getting.
    Top Point getter in 2017: F-100, G-99, D-76.

    Each round I’d compare the best available pick per position vs the waiver wire number and take the highest spread, I would be willing to forgo a few points if it meant getting the last or 2nd last of a tier before a dramatic fall-off.
    So If I get the 1st overall Pick I’m taking McDavid (projecting another 100 point season) because he bests the waiver wire (33P) by 67P, top goalies beat by about 42, Burns (or top-D of your choice) by 44points.
    Because you choose so many forwards I’d continue to hammer forwards early unless I can get one of the 3 (in my view) truly elite D-men (Karlsson, Burns, Hedman). Also I’d keep an eye on the top-16 goalies and make absolutely certain I had one clear cut starter, and then try and get another top-24 clear cut starter to cover injuries.
    In conclusion I wouldn’t be looking to take a goalie first unless a top-6 (I like your 6) goalie fell to me and their wasn’t an 80 point player left. Regarding D unless a top-3 guy fell to me I’d probably wait and take 3 guys you have projected for 45+ points, you can probably steal them late. I don’t see if necessary to be a part of a D-man run when there is a large group from 45-38 points, Frankly I’d rely upon (your) ability to grab the right one of the group.
    Appreciate the lengthy and thoughtful response lawman. Had a conversation with my brother about this topic and more or less agreed on your assesment on getting a top 5 or so goalie in the first round, if not just go heavy on the forwards early. So far am liking my rankings, it's all about building the right strategy now.

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    Default Re: What is your strategy when it comes to "runs"

    Did some research on last years draft and this is how many goalies were taken by round

    Round1: 7
    Round2: 4
    Round3: 1
    Round4: 0
    Round5: 1
    Round6: 1
    Round7: 1
    Round8: 0
    Round9: 1
    Round10: 1
    Round11: 0
    Round12: 2
    Round13: 3
    Round14: 0
    Round15: 3
    Round16: 1
    Round17: 3
    Round18: 3

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