Crosby top 5 of all time?

[Chico Resch]

Oh jeez, no.

You have 100 years + of players to sift through. As good as he is, and he's a 1st ballot HOFer, I think that's irrefutable.

But, for my money......The top 3 are.....

Howe,Gretzky, Orr.

As for slots 4 and 5...... Can I honestly say that he's better than Lemieux? Bossy? Lidstrom? Harvey? Maurice Richard? Messier? Dionne? Bourque? LeFleur? And we're not even looking at Goalies such as Tretiak, Roy, Brodeur, Dryden, Plante?

Top 5? Nope
Top 10? Unlikely he's better than 7 of the guys I just listed.
Top 20? Probably.
Hall of Famer? Absolutely.

How do you say he's better than Henri Richard, who won 11 Cups? 11!

[jdreed3184]

Making a top 5 list is largely based on perspective. Comparing players across decades and positions is difficult and impossible to arrive at consensus.

I'd make a top # list based on a few eras: pre-1950; 1950-1967 (original 6), 1968 - 1988ish, 1988 - present (though you could argue the 90's were their own era)

If we're going last 30 years, I say Crosby is a top 5 talent:
- Gretzky
- Lemieux/Lidstrom/Messier/Crosby

Then there's a bunch of other amazing players you have to consider (like Jagr, Yzerman and Sakic).

[forumname]

Here we go with this again - what does better mean?

I think it's absolutely undeniable that Crosby is better than anyone else to ever play the game. If we're talking about how good he is relative to his competition vs players from different eras, then that's a different story and it's definitely up for debate.

[Canucks_fan18]

There's got to be a mathematical way to show why Crosby is top 5 oppose to say the Rocket who won 11 cups. For instance, Pittsburgh is the first team in the salary cap era to win back to back cups and the first to do so in 20 years. While doing this Crosby has been the captain and Con Symthe winner. There are more teams in the league now and it's way harder to win the cup. Players are in better condition and the average nhler is way better then they were in the 80's, 70's, 60's and so forth.

I think you need to weigh the cup wins based on how many teams were in the league first of all, then weigh it based on what other teams were doing in the same era. That's how you rank that achievement.

Then for personal stats you need to weigh how much better he is then his peers as well as his trophy case. Crosby has been the best player or best 1-2 player in the league year after year for the last decade. That is dominance in relation to his peers.

[Canucks_fan18]

Here we go with this again - what does better mean?

I think it's absolutely undeniable that Crosby is better than anyone else to ever play the game. If we're talking about how good he is relative to his competition vs players from different eras, then that's a different story and it's definitely up for debate.

This is a good point too. With Crosby's skill and strength if he played in the 80's he would of scored more points then Greks. Hell Imagine the goal totals Ovi would of put up. The players nowadays are better then they have ever been. But were talking greatness and that's where era's have to come into play.

[Chico Resch]

I think it's absolutely undeniable that Crosby is better than anyone else to ever play the game.

I think it's easily deniable. I'm not sure how it's so irrefutable that he is so much better than every player in history that it's so cut and dry. That's like saying the entire league is a Tomas Plekanec compared to a Connor McDavid.

[DudeImJason]

by the time his career is done I wouldn't be surprised but I don't think he's there quite yet

1) Lemieux, 2) Orr, 3) Gretzky, 4) Hasek, 5) Jagr (6) Bealiveau (if not counting goalies)

[NikW71]

How do you say he's better than Henri Richard, who won 11 Cups? 11!

Best player of his generation but no better than a guy who at his peak may have been the 3rd or 4th best player on his team. Makes sense ...

[PenguinHunter]

This is a good point too. With Crosby's skill and strength if he played in the 80's he would of scored more points then Greks. Hell Imagine the goal totals Ovi would of put up. The players nowadays are better then they have ever been. But were talking greatness and that's where era's have to come into play.

Give the players from the 80's the training that the players today have. Give them the equipment that players today have.

Sure Crosby with his one-piece composite stick and skates made of supreme material are going to make him appear to be better, faster stronger than Gretzky and his wood-stick and heavier skates...

For each and every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[lucafen4]

Why does it even matter? He's one of the greatest of his generation, perhaps the greatest. I could care less whether he's #4 all-time or #44.

Just sit back and enjoy the fact we get to watch one of the greatest period.

[agentzero]

As far as defencemen go I will just leave Nicklas Lidstrom's name here...

I think when both of their careers are done, Karlsson will be viewed as the better of the two, which is no slight to Lidtsrom in the least. I think he had all the Norris trophies but one in the early to late 2000s. Given the politics with voting (Doughty) I pay less attention to that kind of hardware and more the numbers or separation from their peers. Karlsson is by himself right now. Has been for a couple years and I (argue) will be for a couple years too.


As for the other comments, I like Jagr's name thrown in there. I think by the time both careers are done, Crosby's can be matched up with Jagr's rather favourably. If not for the concussions, Crosby may have had 2 more scoring titles right now. Heck, maybe three, given he could have easily had this year's had he not missed what, 10+ games? His pts/game were better.

[DudeImJason]

sorry but to say Karlsson will be better then Lidstrom by the end is foolish IMO, 8 Norris trophies the guy put up 55+ points almost year to year while being as close to perfect defensively as you'll find, and then the fact that he was able to do that for so long and consistent it's unmatchable. Karlsson is a great offense defenseman no doubt but to be the offensive dman he is his defense will always take a hit, there's a reason why the Norris is awarded to the best dman and not the dman w/ the most points

I think when both of their careers are done, Karlsson will be viewed as the better of the two, which is no slight to Lidtsrom in the least. I think he had all the Norris trophies but one in the early to late 2000s. Given the politics with voting (Doughty) I pay less attention to that kind of hardware and more the numbers or separation from their peers. Karlsson is by himself right now. Has been for a couple years and I (argue) will be for a couple years too.

[forumname]

I think it's easily deniable. I'm not sure how it's so irrefutable that he is so much better than every player in history that it's so cut and dry. That's like saying the entire league is a Tomas Plekanec compared to a Connor McDavid.

Just watch any NHL game from 20+ years ago and you will see that the skill level is nowhere near what it is today. Condition, equipment, etc - everything has evolved to new levels so it isn't even a fair comparison. Transport Tomas Plekanec back to the 60's via time machine and he would be considered one of the greats today. I don't see how you could actually think some of those old-timers are actually better than Crosby. Put them side by side in their primes and Crosby would blow each and every one of them out of the water. I really can't believe how some people are so nostalgic that they argue against this.

[VintageVibe]

Imagine if you won 2 Cups, 2 playoff MVP's, a World Cup & WC MVP & led NHL in goals one year. That's a nice career. Sid did it in 365 days.

1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr

Will forever be the top 3 in my mind.

I can see Sid surpassing Lemeiux into that 4 spot when his career wraps up --- if he hasn't already after the past 365 days as per the above captioned quote. Pretty god damn impressive.

[Jouko-Pouko]

Yeah, I had Crosby on my top-5 even before these playoffs, and now he's definitely solidified his place there. Such a great player but also such a great leader.