Brodie is basically Roman Josi with less fanfare. So unless you think the Preds are trading Josi, the Flames aren't trading Brodie
Maybe it's you that undervalues Fleury (although as a Flames fan, you'd love to have him), overvalues Brodie, or could just be insane yourself.
The Penguins don't have to trade Fleury just because someone is asking and even if they are considering it, they aren't going to just give him away just because Matt Murray had a "good" playoffs. He was very good in one series and just ok in the last two. I don't think the Penguins are ready to hand the keys over just yet.
Fleury didn't lose the starting role during the playoffs because he played bad; he lost it because he got injured and Murray got on a roll. Fleury is still one of the best goalies in the league and if you think the Flames are going to get him for a nickel and a dime, you very well could be insane.
10 Team, Points Only, Cash League
25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt
Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink
G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger
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Brodie is basically Roman Josi with less fanfare. So unless you think the Preds are trading Josi, the Flames aren't trading Brodie
I would say alot less fanfare..
Josi point totals the last 3 years: 40, 55, 61.. 42 goals in that span.. 52 PP points..
Brodie point totals the last 3 years: 31, 41, 45.. 21 goals in that span.. 25 PP points..
There's no denying that the Flames need a goalie.. And I'm sure they would rather make a statement to their players and fans by acquiring Fleury rather then sign Reimer.. Would Jokippaka and a 2nd do it for both teams?? The Pens are definitely cash strapped, but I can't see them just giving away Fleury for a couple draft picks, that seems crazy to me..
Zorro says "vote for Dobber"
Angus is my best friend at dobberhockey..
The Pens need to find a way to get in under the cap, but clearly there are ways other than trading Fleury. I think the only reason they'd entertain the thought of moving him is that Murray has proven that he's got the ability to perform at the top level. It definitely would help them to get his contract off the books, but if they do Rutherford is going to be sure to get a Dman who's under contract. That's really the only need they have to address this summer. I think Brodie is the type of player he'd be targeting from Calgary if he's looking for a roster dman. I also think now's the right time to try to deal a goalie. By the deadline everyone might have lined up the one they intend to keep through the expansion draft, so they might not get the same value for him.
9 Team Dynasty Salary Cap (AAV)
G 1.5, A 1, PPP 1, SHP 1, +/- 0.5, MmP 0.25/Min, HIT 0.1, GWG 3, BLK 0.25 Gordie Howe Hattricks 10 (Skaters)
W, L, GA, SHO, SV (Goal)
Start 12 F 6 D 2 G
11 Player Bench (Max 2 Bench G)
15 Player Farm Team
F: Kucherov, Teravainen, Galchenyuk, Johansen, W Nylander, W Karlsson, Gourde, Vrana, Athanasiou, Vatrano, Buchnevich, Haula, Stastny, Puljujarvi, Eberle, Little, Kovalchuk, Kravtsov, Terry, Bertuzzi, Bratt, Kunin, Hintz, Heinen, Kahun, Sikura, Chytil, Iafallo
D: E Karlsson, Montour, Gardiner, Girard, Faulk, Martinez, Fox, Cernak, Weegar, Pionk, Pilut, Bayreuther
G: Gibson, Bishop, Raanta, Allen, Talbot, Blackwood, Delia, Husso
My thoughts on Fleury to CGY...
I think it's a post-July1 FA sort of thing.
Both teams will see what they can do in free agency first.
IF PIT sees a real attractive piece that only works if they move Fleury...
If CGY fails to get a bonafide solid UFA G (or two) in FA...
Then... maybe, perhaps... it becomes more real...
But trades like this (and the other ones we speculate) often don't happen when teams have two nearing opportunities (draft & FA) to tweak their teams first.
I think we'll see major players dealt only after free agency this year.
I agree that he doesn't really get the credit he deserves.
That said I think the teams might have concerns that he's never played more than 37 NHL games in a season. The most games he's ever played in a pro season is 52 in 2010-2011, and the most he's ever played was 60 in 2006-2007 for the Red Deer Rebels. I can see teams being a little worried he couldn't handle a full season.
14T BiWeekly H2H. 4 C/RW/LW, 6 D, 2 G
Cats:G(3), A(1.5), PIM(0.2), PPP(1), SOG(0.2), GWG(1), SHP(2), Hits(0.3), BkS(0.4). W(2), SO(2), OTL(0.5), SV(0.2), GA(-1), L(-1). 9 Keepers in Bold. 12 player Farm team (skaters under 110, goalies under 80 gp) in italics
LW - Gaudreau, Forsberg, Parise, Hyman (C)
C - Backstrom, Getzlaf, N Foligno (LW/RW), Kotkaniemi, Carter (LW/RW)
RW - Tarasenko, Rantanen, Arvidsson, Atkinson, Gourde (C/LW), Mikheyev (RW)
D - Dahlin, Theodore, Ellis, Klingberg, Fox, Andersson
G - Murray, Grubauer
Prospects -Rossi, Turcotte, Kravstov, Tippett, Bouchard, Lehtonen, K Miller, Addison, DeSmith, Kahkonen, Ingram, Gustavsson
He might be a great goalie but there are external factors that will drive down the cost. It's a buyers market for goalies, there is an upcoming expansion draft where the Pens will be FORCED to expose one of Murray or Fleury or risk losing them for nothing, and Fleury is a 31 year old aging goalie (which isn't terrible, it's just not ideal to a younger team like the Flames). That's on top of the optics of Fleury losing the starting position to Murray in the playoffs (injuries may have been the reason, but he still lost it).
Your not wrong that the Penguins aren't forced to take the low ball offer, but Fleury is absolutely not worth Brodie. We're talking about a dmen who just turned 26, who is signed for the next four season for the bargain rate of 4.654 million dollars (which is over a million dollars cheaper than Fleury's deal), and has steadily improved both his play and his points in every season he's played in the NHL, culminating in 45 point season (at a 52 point pace) and has largely been credited as being the Flames best dmen and the one who holds everything together on the backend for the team.
There is no scenario in which Fleury is worth TJ Brodie
- - - Updated - - -
Agreed, this is a solid post
14T BiWeekly H2H. 4 C/RW/LW, 6 D, 2 G
Cats:G(3), A(1.5), PIM(0.2), PPP(1), SOG(0.2), GWG(1), SHP(2), Hits(0.3), BkS(0.4). W(2), SO(2), OTL(0.5), SV(0.2), GA(-1), L(-1). 9 Keepers in Bold. 12 player Farm team (skaters under 110, goalies under 80 gp) in italics
LW - Gaudreau, Forsberg, Parise, Hyman (C)
C - Backstrom, Getzlaf, N Foligno (LW/RW), Kotkaniemi, Carter (LW/RW)
RW - Tarasenko, Rantanen, Arvidsson, Atkinson, Gourde (C/LW), Mikheyev (RW)
D - Dahlin, Theodore, Ellis, Klingberg, Fox, Andersson
G - Murray, Grubauer
Prospects -Rossi, Turcotte, Kravstov, Tippett, Bouchard, Lehtonen, K Miller, Addison, DeSmith, Kahkonen, Ingram, Gustavsson
FWIW, not once in this thread have I personally ever said that Fleury is going to get them Brodie, but to say that it's not possible isn't something I am willing to say either. All I have been saying is that a lot of people in this thread seem to think the Flames will get Fleury on the cheap, and I don't see that happening.
If it is a Dman that the Penguins will want in return from Fleury, I can certainly see them asking for someone like TJ Brodie. Whether they get him or not is to be seen, but if I was Rutherford, I would be asking for someone like him myself.
That could be the make or break for the Flames and it would depend on how much they value Fleury. It's going to be a fun summer.
10 Team, Points Only, Cash League
25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt
Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink
G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger
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Pittsburgh is right up against the cap, so while Fleury mitigates that problem, I doubt they'll want to take on another big contract. Unless, it was for a player like Brodie.
Something like Pouliot and Fleury for Brodie might be more realistic, but Calgary parting ways with Brodie seems extremely unlikely.
Am I the only one who thinks the Penguins are more likely to trade Murray than they are to trade Fleury. Murray will have more trade value due to his age but Fleury is likely still a better goalie. The Penguins Cup window is closing quickly as Crosby and Malkin are not getting younger. Moving Murray for a dman and a back up goalie is probably the smartest thing they could do.
One thing that seems to be missing is the cap hit difference between Wideman & Fleury. Based on hockey-reference numbers, Wideman has less of a cap hit.
Flames:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/team...alary-cap.html
Penguins:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/team...alary-cap.html
Wideman is 5.25 million for 2016-17, then UFA.
Fleury is 5.75 million for 2016-17 through 2018-19.
Doing a deal like Wideman & a pick for Fleury gives them some cap relief now, and the cap room to sign Murray in 2017-18 when he becomes a RFA. So the Pens actually are saving money versus the cap in a straight-up deal. If the Flames retain some salary, that would be even better for them.
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I wonder if Halak isn't quietly being shopped too? Greiss did well and isn't Berube waiver eligible* (can't find it anywhere but know he did come over in waivers) will potentially be cheaper on both counts for the Flames (though not sure he would be the best fit)
So you're saying Pittsburgh can't win a cup with Murray.....?
This isn't some flash in the pan like Andrew Hammond or even Cam Ward for that matter, Murray has established dominance at just about every level he's played. He's not just going to come crashing back down to earth.