Addictions

[forumname]

For myself personally, I find it best to ignore all of the corporate funded studies and other BS, and just do what seems to make the most sense. I stay away from coffee for the most part because from what I see in other people I don't think it gives any real advantage. It creates the hole that it fills. People who don't drink coffee aren't miserable ****s in the morning when they don't have a cup. The mood and energy boosting qualities of coffee are an illusion created by caffeine. In other words, by drinking coffee you are creating the very problems you think coffee solves.

Ask yourself this - what happens if you don't get your coffee one day? Are you a sack of **** with no energy? Grumpy, miserable, tired? If so, then how can your relationship with coffee be healthy?

The health benefits some people claim (good for your heart, etc) are another story and may or may not be real, but it's not like these people are saying it's some kind of miracle cure that we can't live without. You can definitely get those good things from other sources - ones of which the jury isn't still out.

I don't know of anyone who drinks coffee regularly for the sake of their health - using the minuscule health advantages as an excuse to continue their addiction on the other hand seems to be more common.

[Daydream Nation]

For myself personally, I find it best to ignore all of the corporate funded studies and other BS, and just do what seems to make the most sense. I stay away from coffee for the most part because from what I see in other people I don't think it gives any real advantage. It creates the hole that it fills. People who don't drink coffee aren't miserable ****s in the morning when they don't have a cup. The mood and energy boosting qualities of coffee are an illusion created by caffeine. In other words, by drinking coffee you are creating the very problems you think coffee solves.

Ask yourself this - what happens if you don't get your coffee one day? Are you a sack of **** with no energy? Grumpy, miserable, tired? If so, then how can your relationship with coffee be healthy?

The health benefits some people claim (good for your heart, etc) are another story and may or may not be real, but it's not like these people are saying it's some kind of miracle cure that we can't live without. You can definitely get those good things from other sources - ones of which the jury isn't still out.

I don't know of anyone who drinks coffee regularly for the sake of their health - using the minuscule health advantages as an excuse to continue their addiction on the other hand seems to be more common.

The last time I went a day without a cup of coffee was 1997 and that was when I had the worst flu of my life so I can't even tell you how I would feel going a day without a cup. Obviously, people don't drink coffee for its health benefits but they are an added bonus. And I don't drink coffee because it gives me an advantage, I drink it because I love it. Hot, black, strong- no cream, no sugar. The first cup of coffee every morning while I look over hockey box scores is divine.

I am not suggesting someone should drink large quantities of coffee daily but a couple cups a day is fine and provide some health benefits.

[StuntMan12]

I noticed when I had 3-6 cups of coffee and did a night of work stocking shelves at grocery store and kept my calorie count at 2000 that my weight would go down quicker than without. Possibly due to the caffeine making my heart pump more? I dont know.

[forumname]

The last time I went a day without a cup of coffee was 1997 and that was when I had the worst flu of my life so I can't even tell you how I would feel going a day without a cup. Obviously, people don't drink coffee for its health benefits but they are an added bonus. And I don't drink coffee because it gives me an advantage, I drink it because I love it. Hot, black, strong- no cream, no sugar. The first cup of coffee every morning while I look over hockey box scores is divine.

I am not suggesting someone should drink large quantities of coffee daily but a couple cups a day is fine and provide some health benefits.

I would bet that you don't love it because it's good, but that you love it because you're addicted to the drug in it. This is one of the hardest things for addicts to come to terms with. People think they love alcohol and cigarettes and heroin, but they don't. They love the affect, and the affect goes down the toilet over time such that eventually all you are doing is getting yourself back to where you would have been without ever touching it in the first place.

People who don't drink coffee regularly don't tend to like the taste. I have a couple cups a year, and they're great because they give me a swift kick of energy, while somehow also relaxing me. But the taste isn't good - it's something most people have to work to like. The same thing happens with smokers. Nobody likes their first cigarette. It tastes like hell. But the 10,000th one is like pure heaven. Well how can that be?

Also, the benefits you speak of are kind of a new 'discovery'. The pros and cons of coffee tend to flip flop back and fourth from year to year, so soon you might be hearing nothing but how coffee causes skin disease, the re-emergence of polio and racism. I wouldn't put too much stock in the 'health benefits' you speak of. Flavor of the week.

Good to hear you drink it black though - that goes a long way in limiting the bad and increasing the good. You should try a couple days without it, just as an experiment. You might go to a mall and start shooting everybody.

- - - Updated - - -

I noticed when I had 3-6 cups of coffee and did a night of work stocking shelves at grocery store and kept my calorie count at 2000 that my weight would go down quicker than without. Possibly due to the caffeine making my heart pump more? I dont know.

Caffeine boosts metabolism. You were probably shitting a lot more too!

[Bass56]

I noticed when I had 3-6 cups of coffee and did a night of work stocking shelves at grocery store and kept my calorie count at 2000 that my weight would go down quicker than without. Possibly due to the caffeine making my heart pump more? I dont know.

Caffeine boosts metabolism. You were probably shitting a lot more too!

Hehe my thinking exactly! Stocking shelves...unstocking bowels

[Daydream Nation]

Also, the benefits you speak of are kind of a new 'discovery'. The pros and cons of coffee tend to flip flop back and fourth from year to year, so soon you might be hearing nothing but how coffee causes skin disease, the re-emergence of polio and racism. I wouldn't put too much stock in the 'health benefits' you speak of. Flavor of the week.

You use a lot of loaded words in your posts. Addicts, heroin, skin disease, polio, racism- enough of the hyperbole.

If you are going to waste so much time arguing your entrenched position, read a little more. There are peer reviewed studies and respected organizations that talk about the benefits of drinking coffee. As someone who has monitored coffee health news over the years, your claims of flip flopping are wrong.

[forumname]

You use a lot of loaded words in your posts. Addicts, heroin, skin disease, polio, racism- enough of the hyperbole.

If you are going to waste so much time arguing your entrenched position, read a little more. There are peer reviewed studies and respected organizations that talk about the benefits of drinking coffee. As someone who has monitored coffee health news over the years, your claims of flip flopping are wrong.

Dude, you haven't gone a day without it in almost 20 years, and you think the word addict is hyperbole???

Caffeine is an addictive drug. Nicotine is an addictive drug. Heroin is an addictive drug. Yes, one has much worse social stigma than the others, but they are all addictive and each is capable of having some degree of negative impact on the human body.

I thought it was clear that mention of polio, racism and skin cancer was a joke aimed at scientific studies and click-bait articles, but I guess not...

You clearly only read one side of the research you speak of, so we might as well just let it go.

[Daydream Nation]

You clearly only read one side of the research you speak of, so we might as well just let it go.

I don't read one side of the research. I read the conclusions of researched, peer-reviewed medical studies. Hell, go read some Harvard Medical research on coffee. Or is that clickbait?

[forumname]

I don't read one side of the research. I read the conclusions of researched, peer-reviewed medical studies. Hell, go read some Harvard Medical research on coffee. Or is that clickbait?

Whatever professor. Yesterday is was bad for you, today it's good for you. Who knows what it will be tomorrow.

[The Comish]

I've recently got over an addiction and the most important thing I've learned is this:

Will power is not the way to quit. If you try to quit simply by withholding from whatever it is you're addicted to, you're likely going to fail and you're going to be miserable the entire time. You will still want energy drinks just as much as ever, and you will mope around and pity yourself for not being allowed to have them. Any kind of 'substitute' is just going to perpetuate this feeling of sacrifice, so avoid those as well.

Caffeine is a drug and you're a drug addict. The best way to break this is to allow yourself to accept that fact, and get your mind to a place where you understand that life without the drug will be better. One of the mistakes we often make is to associate the idea of 'sacrifice' with giving something up and suffering for it. Don't think of it as just giving up something that you like - but giving up something in exchange for something much better. Health, freedom, money, whatever. When you sacrifice a pawn in chess to take their bishop, you don't mope around about missing the pawn, wishing you could have it back. It was a strategic choice to better your position. Kicking an addiction is the same thing. Your life will be way better once you get that **** out of the picture, so if you can accept that premise and start looking at the drawbacks of quitting as a good thing, it will be easy.

Wow, crazy good post forumname! I love the chess analogy!

That's the thing about these drugs (nicotine, caffeine, etc). They don't actually give you the high you think they do. They might at first, but eventually they only get you back to what used to be normal.

Say a non coffee drinker has an energy level of 5. A coffee might boost them up to a 7 for a while (which is awesome), but at some point they crash and require more coffee. After doing that enough, eventually their stable state becomes a 3 instead of a 5, and they need the coffee just to get back up to the original 5. At this point they are getting no advantage.

Regular coffee drinkers aren't much different from smokers, who aren't much different from heroin addicts. Of course coffee isn't as bad for you as the others, so it's less likely to **** up your life in any noticeable way...

For myself personally, I find it best to ignore all of the corporate funded studies and other BS, and just do what seems to make the most sense. I stay away from coffee for the most part because from what I see in other people I don't think it gives any real advantage. It creates the hole that it fills. People who don't drink coffee aren't miserable ****s in the morning when they don't have a cup. The mood and energy boosting qualities of coffee are an illusion created by caffeine. In other words, by drinking coffee you are creating the very problems you think coffee solves.

Ask yourself this - what happens if you don't get your coffee one day? Are you a sack of **** with no energy? Grumpy, miserable, tired? If so, then how can your relationship with coffee be healthy?

I would bet that you don't love it because it's good, but that you love it because you're addicted to the drug in it. This is one of the hardest things for addicts to come to terms with. People think they love alcohol and cigarettes and heroin, but they don't. They love the affect, and the affect goes down the toilet over time such that eventually all you are doing is getting yourself back to where you would have been without ever touching it in the first place.

People who don't drink coffee regularly don't tend to like the taste. I have a couple cups a year, and they're great because they give me a swift kick of energy, while somehow also relaxing me. But the taste isn't good - it's something most people have to work to like. The same thing happens with smokers. Nobody likes their first cigarette. It tastes like hell. But the 10,000th one is like pure heaven. Well how can that be?

Also, the benefits you speak of are kind of a new 'discovery'. The pros and cons of coffee tend to flip flop back and fourth from year to year, so soon you might be hearing nothing but how coffee causes skin disease, the re-emergence of polio and racism. I wouldn't put too much stock in the 'health benefits' you speak of. Flavor of the week.

Good to hear you drink it black though - that goes a long way in limiting the bad and increasing the good. You should try a couple days without it, just as an experiment. You might go to a mall and start shooting everybody.

I've never enjoyed reading a string of posts from one member as much as these. Thanks for sharing forumname!

I've never been a coffee drinker and I'm almost annoyingly happy. I've kept trying coffee over the years to see if my tastes have changed, but nope, still not for me. I agree with you, when you "need" something to alter your mood, that's an addiction.

A few months ago, I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic. My sugars and triglycerides were off the charts. I saw a nutritionist who helped me with what, when (she's convinced me that when is important as well) and how much to eat. I would tend to eat very little during the day and then go home late, eat dinner and keep on eating until the wee hours of the morning when I went to bed. Rinse, repeat. I pretty much stopped drinking, although I will drink whenever I want...I just found that my desire to get my numbers down was stronger than my desire to have a drink. I don't miss drinking at all, so I consider myself lucky that I don't crave alcohol very often.

My first blood work after about 3 months of working on healthier eating and my numbers are nearly back to within acceptable range. I'm still not out of the woods and can't really go back to eating completely unchecked, but I'm quite comfortable with what I'm eating. Now, if I could just stop drinking the damn Coke Zero...addictions...

[forumname]

Aw gee, thanks Comish! I stole the chess analogy from a financial blogger I follow. He uses it do talk about how not spending money doesn't make your life worse because you have fewer things, but in fact it makes your life better because you learn to need less, you become more self reliant, you have more freedom, you don't have to work as much, etc, etc... You're not giving something up, you're trading it for something better. Same goes for kicking an addiction.

[The Guvnah]

I haven't read a single article on whether or not coffee is good for you, but I enjoy my two cups a day. Call it an addiction if you like, but if it is not affecting your life or health in a negative way (which it's not), and it's enjoyable, is it really something that needs to be 'kicked'?

[StuntMan12]

I haven't read a single article on whether or not coffee is good for you, but I enjoy my two cups a day. Call it an addiction if you like, but if it is not affecting your life or health in a negative way (which it's not), and it's enjoyable, is it really something that needs to be 'kicked'?

I think that is a fair enough point. I think coffee is somewhat good in moderation. My problem is I like going overboard. Going overboard on my coffee may be different than what it is to others, if I drink too much coffee for example I try and walk outside and do stuff but get dizzy and I almost literally need to hang onto something in order to walk to my vehicle.

[metaldude26]

Wow, crazy good post forumname! I love the chess analogy!







I've never enjoyed reading a string of posts from one member as much as these. Thanks for sharing forumname!

I've never been a coffee drinker and I'm almost annoyingly happy. I've kept trying coffee over the years to see if my tastes have changed, but nope, still not for me. I agree with you, when you "need" something to alter your mood, that's an addiction.

A few months ago, I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic. My sugars and triglycerides were off the charts. I saw a nutritionist who helped me with what, when (she's convinced me that when is important as well) and how much to eat. I would tend to eat very little during the day and then go home late, eat dinner and keep on eating until the wee hours of the morning when I went to bed. Rinse, repeat. I pretty much stopped drinking, although I will drink whenever I want...I just found that my desire to get my numbers down was stronger than my desire to have a drink. I don't miss drinking at all, so I consider myself lucky that I don't crave alcohol very often.

My first blood work after about 3 months of working on healthier eating and my numbers are nearly back to within acceptable range. I'm still not out of the woods and can't really go back to eating completely unchecked, but I'm quite comfortable with what I'm eating. Now, if I could just stop drinking the damn Coke Zero...addictions...

Have you heard anything about the rumours of artificial sweeteners causing an insulin spike? Could be pertinent to your pre-diabetic condition. I haven't found and scientific literature proving a link but I figure it's worth examining.

One thing I do believe is that stuff like diet soda is a fake health food in that it really isn't healthy and can be used as a way to justify behaviours. It's like, you say to yourself, "well I didn't have the full calorie soda so I can eat this whole bad of chips." Anecdotally, I find the fizziness of soda primes me to overeat. Maybe it's just old habits dying hard or that there is a real connection between the fizz and junk. I don't know. I just know it's best for me to stay away from all of it.

*

The thing that I feel about addiction is that everything has the capacity to be addictive. We have these reward centers in our brain and when we engage in behaviours that set off those reward centers, releasing dopamine, etc. we feel good and that good feeling is addictive. So what I believe in is positive addictions. Am I gaining something beyond mere satisfaction out of my habit? Yes, then continue. No, then work on finding something else.

My addictions:

Fantasy Hockey and all the connection to technology that creates ie. constantly checking league pages, always on Twitter, etc. Lucky for me, I've made a job of this and it's one that I enjoy, which also affords me a lot of daily freedom so it's a positive.

Soda. I probably would call this thing kicked. I can go months without a pop and think nothing of it. At the same time, the stuff is delicious. My new thing is Kombucha, which is a probiotic drink with a few calories from the fruit they use to flavour it, otherwise it's just water that is made effervescent through the actions of the bacteria in the drink. Good stuff. You're as much bacteria as you are human in terms of pure cell count so getting probiotics is pretty key. I don't think we fully grasp just how important gut flora is on health, diet, behaviour, etc. Another positive of the Kombucha is unlike a soda, it makes me feel full. It's also expensive as hell but if there is one thing I am willing to spend on it's good food.

Working out. I can't really take a day off from the gym unless I'm sick. I know I am creating a state of being over-trained and that this isn't getting the best results possible but it's what I love to do and I notice real genuine mental and physical benefits so I'm not going to stop. My solution to trying to avoid over-training is to vary my workouts by never doing one thing, ie weight lifting, stretching/yoga, interval training, playing sports, etc.

One of the things I find with working out is I get really hooked on setting goals. A few years ago I was obsessed with jump training trying to get myself to be able to dunk. I maxed out at a 32" vertical before plateauing and noticing some injuries. I learned a lot from that about what sorts of training works and doesn't.

My latest goal is mastering the hand stand and being able to walk around on my hands. Boy has this been humbling. I thought I had pretty decent core strength and balance. I was wrong.

My point is that you need to find habits and behaviours that are adding to your life. You are going to get addicted to shit, it's inherent to our design. Some people are more resilient than others but we all have our addictions. Put these habits to the table test and make sure they are putting more on the table than they are taking away.

[Fighting_Emu]

@Forumname

I just dont feel like the attack on daydream nations consumption is warranted. I have been in and out of "the rooms" for a long time now (assuming thats where youre getting this?)- and this is absolute classic projection. You are using a lot of hyperbole- whether you want to admit or not- to argue he should be cutting out something that to all intents and purposes sounds like it has enriched and augmented the guys life in a healthy enough way. Is it totally healthy? No probably not- but hes not talking about something that has mitigated great loss, stress, or adversity in his life. Imho youre using hyperbole because the topic is terrifying for you as an addict. If your addiction was halfway serious- you probably had a similar experience- except there were immediate, real and maybe even terminal consequences that you got very close to. I know for myself thats the case. So I get a little panicky when the subject comes up- but honestly not everyone is built the same way. I could argue til Im blue in the face about alcohol- I could cite some great empyrical evidence- TONS of anecdotal evidence- I could make a case that NOBODY ANYWHERE has ever benefitted from alcohol. But you know why I make that case? Because Im terrified of what I can do with alcohol- how far Id go. I know a lot of people who manage it absolutely fine- have great experiences with it and know how to shut it down. So even though Im probably trying to help- maybe trying to reinforce some ideas I need in place for me- Im really coming across as a dick. Youve used some pretty heavy language attacking someones use of one pot of coffee a day- and no offense- thats kind of dickish.

Sorry if Im being rude- I just see this sht all the time in recovery. Worry about you- share your knowledge- be helpful- but tone it down with the fire and brimstone- it just alienates people from what is an otherwise great and positive message.

Or dont- lol- I dont mean to be preachy- this tone is just such a huge pet peeve of mine thats all...