WHL (World Hockey League) - Settings / Inaug.Draft / Discussion

[Pengwin7]

As stated on fantrax, first 5 picks are for the Junior roster and picks 6-10 are for the pro roster players that were dropped.
I can assume the first 5 picks are NOT snake draft style since it is prospects, but how about the pro roster picks from 6-10? Is this back to snake style drafting?

Each round will be same.
Worst team drafts first.
No more snaking in any draft going forward.

[Pengwin7]

quick question regarding the rosters...
The reserve players (aka the "bench") also need to be PRO players, correct?
In another words, I can not have minor players riding my bench, they would need to be in the "minors" of which I am only allowed to have 10.
Am I correct?

It's a great discussion point... worth talking about for the next couple weeks.

Ideally, every team would carry 25 playing NHL players on their PRO team... and insert them for each day of games.
All teams must have active, playing NHL players in their starting spots at ALL times. The 3C/3LW/3RW/3F/6D/1G... these MUST be guys who are on NHL teams, playing, and healthy. MUST

re: 6 Bench spots
What I'd prefer to see is that all teams carry a 6-player bench that is also NHL players, who are playing actively, and healthy.
And I'd like to see GMs trying to get these guys into their starting line-up daily.
[This said, if a team knows which 20 they are keeping - they may still passively tank by rostering "healthy scratch" type players that are on NHL squads: Matt Hunwick, for example.]

In reality though, a ton of conditions will happen:
i) A team that is out of it simply won't show up to set their line-ups daily... and I don't want to penalize them strictly for missing a start or two or three.
ii) A team that is out of it may be so intent on rostering youth that they roster some kid just up from the AHL... but then that kid gets sent back to the AHL... except the GM can't move that player to his full JR team and doesn't want to be forced to drop that player.
iii) A team may have a veteran player sent down to his AHL team... but the GM may not want to drop that player. (Mike Richards, Wade Redden)

So we have to come up with some sort of rule/clause/guideline to realize that a GM may have a few players among his "25 PRO" that may not be playing many NHL minutes.

Some rules we will have:
1) "Additions" to a PRO team MUST be active NHL players. i.e. GMs will not be permitted to just add an AHL player to their PRO team. (There will be a clause that an AHL player, even if expected to be called up, may only be added to a JR team. When an AHL player has been called up to NHL team (official when an NHL.com article has been posted), only then may a GM add that player - because they are now an NHL player. Without this sort of rule, we'll see re-building GMs just holding inactive AHL players saying "Well, I'm pretty sure he'll be called up eventually and I wanted to own him before somebody else grabs him." Conversely, I'm not sure we can make somebody "force drop" a player that has been sent back to the AHL... so what do we do here with this sort of thing? Ideas?)

It's a tough rule to attend to.
The key reason to discuss it is "fairness".
The regular season title could come down to Team A vs. Team B... with perhaps Team Z finishing in last place.

Team A may face a very active Team Z in week 1, when all teams are "going for it".
But we don't want Team B to face a very inactive Team Z in week 23, when TeamZ is "out of it".

That's what I want to collect some ideas on.
How do we make it fair throughout the season as far as "inactivity"?
What sort or rules can we make for PRO rosters & bench to best suit the league?

[JagrBomb]

[This said, if a team knows which 20 they are keeping - they may still passively tank by rostering "healthy scratch" type players that are on NHL squads: Matt Hunwick, for example.]

i dont see any benefit to allowing teams to have "healthy scratch" players. however as long as that player is still in the NHL (i.e doesnt have a green flag on fantrax) then i suppose it's fair game. although it will be quite obvious to see who is "tanking" if they are purposely filling their lineups with players who arent playing.

i) A team that is out of it simply won't show up to set their line-ups daily... and I don't want to penalize them strictly for missing a start or two or three.

it shouldnt matter if you are competing or rebuilding, you are supposed to be playing your best roster every day. setting lineups should be mandatory. i understand everyone has their days where they might accidentally forget, it will happen to all of us. but if you are consistently not setting your lines then why bother being in the league? it's not fair at all to other teams who put in the effort to play their full roster and active lineups every day, just for another team to not care and get a better pick out of it too.

ii) A team that is out of it may be so intent on rostering youth that they roster some kid just up from the AHL... but then that kid gets sent back to the AHL... except the GM can't move that player to his full JR team and doesn't want to be forced to drop that player.

iii) A team may have a veteran player sent down to his AHL team... but the GM may not want to drop that player. (Mike Richards, Wade Redden)

this is why i mentioned earlier that we should allow all green flag (jr, ahl players etc) + blue flag (free agents) + black flag (inactive) players on your JR roster. if you want to waste a JR spot with a bum thats your decision, chances are you wont even be keeping them. maybe instead of calling it JR roster it should just be our Minor roster, i.e players that are minors eligibile.

like can you imagine if a player like Drouin (who for arguements sake exceeds the JR eligibility) and then gets sent down to the AHL? what happens then? he's green flag so its not fair to keep him on the roster, but he's exceeded the GP for being a JR player.

[Pengwin7]

^These are great thoughts.

To play devil's advocate though... asking a GM to constantly roster a full (incl. bench) team of NHL-ers that are never a healthy scratch is gonna bring up some issues.
The WHL does have a rostered depth where we are into teams' D6/D7 and 4th line forwards.

A GM may prefer to roster an NHL-er with upside that is consistently a healthy scratch. (ex. Mark Barberio, 103gp).
Are we going to police that GM and tell him that instead of Barberio (who may score 0.8pts when he plays every 3rd game)... we'd prefer to see him roster Chipchura (who may play 82gp, but only score 0.4pts per game with no upside).

If Barberio is playing only 1 out of every 3 NHL games (as the D7)... is that enough?
What if he plays 1 out of every 2 NHL games?
At what point is a GM allowed to "get mad" about this and call out some other GM because a guy is being a "healthy scratch" too often and is thus not scoring points?

(It's a very grey line to propose & police that "healthy scratch" players can't be rostered on a PRO team.)

Another case...
What if Barberio gets cycled down to the AHL?
Do we force the GM to either cut Barbs or cut one of his 10 JR players?
If an AHL player has to get pushed off the PRO roster - how soon do we have to enforce this?
And what do we do if a GM doesn't make this move?

A good league set of rules/guidelines should avoid too much policing... and avoid forcing teams to drop players they own.

[JagrBomb]

^These are great thoughts.

To play devil's advocate though... asking a GM to constantly roster a full team of NHL-ers that are healthy & playing is gonna bring up some issues.

A GM may prefer to roster an NHL-er with upside that is consistently a healthy scratch. (ex. Mark Barberio, 103gp).
Are we going to police that GM and tell him that instead of Barberio (who may score 0.8pts when he plays every 3rd game)... we'd prefer to see him roster Chipchura (who may play 82gp, but only score 0.4pts per game with no upside).

If Barberio is playing only 1 out of every 3 NHL games (as the D7)... is that enough?
What if he plays 1 out of every 2 NHL games?
At what point is a GM allowed to "get mad" about this and call out some other GM because a guy is being a "healthy scratch" too often and is thus not scoring points?

(It's a very grey line to propose & police that "healthy scratch" players can't be rostered on a PRO team.)

Another case...
What if Barberio gets cycled down to the AHL?
Do we force the GM to either cut Barbs or cut one of his 10 JR players?
If an AHL player has to get pushed off the PRO roster - how soon do we have to enforce this?
And what do we do if a GM doesn't make this move?

A good league set of rules/guidelines should avoid too much policing... and avoid forcing teams to drop players they own.

i think i answered both those points in my post but i'll mention them again...

this would solve everything:


we should allow all green flag (jr, ahl players etc) + blue flag (free agents) + black flag (inactive) players on your JR roster.



basically if your player is currently not playing in the NHL then he is minors eligibile. this will ensure teams are all playing their best roster with NHL players.

that way they can keep a guy like barbeiro on their active roster even if he is only playing 1/3 games. if he gets sent down to the AHL, he will get green flagged, thus allowing him to be sent down to their JR roster. and yes, if his JR roster is full then that is his decision and he will need to either drop barbeiro or someone else. if teams want to load up on 10 good prospects then naturally that means they dont have any other JR spots available so they wont have much leeway.

there wouldnt even be any need for policing...it would be common sense. if there are non-nhl players on your active roster, then fix it. a guy gets sent down? call someone up to replace him.

[rainydrinkwater]

Praba. I'm guessing that you're suggesting that if the pro gets sent down to AHL and we then want to send him down, he wouldn't need to go through waivers in our league?

Good and needed talk. If it's looked as minor as opposed to JR as suggested, a couple more slots would likely help out as the ten were placed with JR/rookie eligibility in mind.

[JagrBomb]

Praba. I'm guessing that you're suggesting that if the pro gets sent down to AHL and we then want to send him down, he wouldn't need to go through waivers in our league?

Good and needed talk. If it's looked as minor as opposed to JR as suggested, a couple more slots would likely help out as the ten were placed with JR/rookie eligibility in mind.

yes no waivers needed to send down to JRs. and yes minors would be a better proposed term for my proposal.

maybe we could add a few spots for this year just for non-JR players with green flags (i.e mike richards types of players who get sent down that arent JR eligible)?

imo this is the best way to ensure no tanking and no policing.

if we leave it as is, there will definitely be teams that are inactive with green flags all over their roster.

i'm competing so this rule doesnt even affect me, but i know being in a couple other large leagues that having non-nhl players on your active roster is pretty unhealthy for the league. teams will see other teams playing less NHL players and complain, and then eventually do the same just to even the odds on getting a higher pick.

[Pengwin7]

Sorry.
As I was writing up my previous post my computer started to bog and crash.
I think you make some good sense in this proposal. I'll think some more on it but it warrants consideration.

Maybe not the "black flag" players - if those include Kovalchuk/Tkachev... I still want those guys off limits.
But the general theory/thought is really good.

[Pit Bulls]

yes no waivers needed to send down to JRs. and yes minors would be a better proposed term for my proposal.

maybe we could add a few spots for this year just for non-JR players with green flags (i.e mike richards types of players who get sent down that arent JR eligible)?

imo this is the best way to ensure no tanking and no policing.

if we leave it as is, there will definitely be teams that are inactive with green flags all over their roster.

i'm competing so this rule doesnt even affect me, but i know being in a couple other large leagues that having non-nhl players on your active roster is pretty unhealthy for the league. teams will see other teams playing less NHL players and complain, and then eventually do the same just to even the odds on getting a higher pick.

I like the idea of moving players from active to the minors without going through waivers.

If we adopt this guideline, I'm with rainy and would want a few more spots added to our minor squad as I drafted my JR's with hopes of them making the NHL within a year or two (to replace some of the slugs I drafted in the later rounds). I would hate to drop them to make room for a player that is demoted to the AHL and I also wouldn't like the idea of dropping a player I drafted just because he is demoted (like the Drouin example cited above by praba).

Black flag players (inactive players) should not be allowed in the minors after Oct 1.

Good discussions so far.....

[Bobby4Ever]

active NHLers on your PRO roster. you cant just fill your active roster with JR/overseas players, not fair to teams rebuilding if there are other teams playing much less NHL players than anyone else.

I believe GinFizz was referring to the 6 reserve slots on the roster.

From what I understand in the guidelines the 19 Pro active slots MUST have active NHL players at all times, correct?

So does that mean the players in your 6 RESERVE slots do not have to be active NHL players?

I am also trying to clarify this.

I think what GINFIZZ is trying to confirm is if you have a player that you drafted to your PRO roster and he was in the minors or juniors last season but there is a possibility of that player making the NHL team out of training camp but then he doesn't, do you then have the option to let him sit on one of your 6 reserve spots?

The only other options would be to drop that player to waivers OR drop a prospect from your JR team and then place that player on your JR. team, if said player is eligible.

Looking at GinFizz's team I think he is referring to Koklachev and Kapenen if im not mistaken.

There may be other team's that have the same situation.

[Bobby4Ever]

i dont see any benefit to allowing teams to have "healthy scratch" players. however as long as that player is still in the NHL (i.e doesnt have a green flag on fantrax) then i suppose it's fair game. although it will be quite obvious to see who is "tanking" if they are purposely filling their lineups with players who arent playing.




it shouldnt matter if you are competing or rebuilding, you are supposed to be playing your best roster every day. setting lineups should be mandatory. i understand everyone has their days where they might accidentally forget, it will happen to all of us. but if you are consistently not setting your lines then why bother being in the league? it's not fair at all to other teams who put in the effort to play their full roster and active lineups every day, just for another team to not care and get a better pick out of it too.





this is why i mentioned earlier that we should allow all green flag (jr, ahl players etc) + blue flag (free agents) + black flag (inactive) players on your JR roster. if you want to waste a JR spot with a bum thats your decision, chances are you wont even be keeping them. maybe instead of calling it JR roster it should just be our Minor roster, i.e players that are minors eligibile.

like can you imagine if a player like Drouin (who for arguements sake exceeds the JR eligibility) and then gets sent down to the AHL? what happens then? he's green flag so its not fair to keep him on the roster, but he's exceeded the GP for being a JR player.

More than likely a player like Drouin or any player that exceeds the GP limit is not going to be sent back down to minors , I think this will not happen often and in a case of a veteran who gets sent to the AHL is he really worth keeping if he's playing that badly?

Im not for adding any extra spots to the JR. roster now that we have done the draft , I don't think it's fair.

[GinFizz]

I believe GinFizz was referring to the 6 reserve slots on the roster.

From what I understand in the guidelines the 19 Pro active slots MUST have active NHL players at all times, correct?

So does that mean the players in your 6 RESERVE slots do not have to be active NHL players?

I am also trying to clarify this.

I think what GINFIZZ is trying to confirm is if you have a player that you drafted to your PRO roster and he was in the minors or juniors last season but there is a possibility of that player making the NHL team out of training camp but then he doesn't, do you then have the option to let him sit on one of your 6 reserve spots?

The only other options would be to drop that player to waivers OR drop a prospect from your JR team and then place that player on your JR. team, if said player is eligible.

Looking at GinFizz's team I think he is referring to Koklachev and Kapenen if im not mistaken.

There may be other team's that have the same situation.

damn!!! You nailed it. Exactly what is was taking about and the players specifically.

[JagrBomb]

I believe GinFizz was referring to the 6 reserve slots on the roster.

From what I understand in the guidelines the 19 Pro active slots MUST have active NHL players at all times, correct?

So does that mean the players in your 6 RESERVE slots do not have to be active NHL players?

I am also trying to clarify this.

I think what GINFIZZ is trying to confirm is if you have a player that you drafted to your PRO roster and he was in the minors or juniors last season but there is a possibility of that player making the NHL team out of training camp but then he doesn't, do you then have the option to let him sit on one of your 6 reserve spots?

The only other options would be to drop that player to waivers OR drop a prospect from your JR team and then place that player on your JR. team, if said player is eligible.

Looking at GinFizz's team I think he is referring to Koklachev and Kapenen if im not mistaken.

There may be other team's that have the same situation.

reserve spots are just bench spots, they are still part of your PRO roster. the only difference between your active slots and reserve spots is that only the active slots will accumulate points for that matchup. the reserve players can be freely swapped with players on your active roster. it's the exact same thing as yahoo, except yahoo calls the reserve spots "bench" spots.

so to answer his question, yes, if kapanen does not make the leafs he will need to be sent down to JR roster. same goes for any other players that are sent back to AHL/juniors etc. only NHL players are allowed on your active/reserve roster.

commish is deciding if we will be allowed to send down all green flags to the JR roster since there are often cases of overage players being sent down to the AHL

[Pengwin7]

From what I understand in the guidelines the 19 Pro active slots MUST have active NHL players at all times, correct?
So does that mean the players in your 6 RESERVE slots do not have to be active NHL players?
I am also trying to clarify this.

There is good merit to GinFizz's team situation & the NHL-activity-proposal from praba.

I think we can achieve both items with a few statements:

1. When modifying rules, we must try to allow teams to keep "drafted" players. The rules were not set in stone pre-draft... so I don't want to force anybody to drop "drafted" players when we modify or clarify a rule.
2. "Drafted" junior-eligible players may be left on the PRO squad ONLY if all ten (10) players on the team's JR/Minors are: i) Original "WHL drafted" players AND ii) Not actively in the NHL.

Simply Put: Teams may NOT keep a non-NHL player on their PRO team if they have an active NHL player on the JR team.
This applies to "WHL drafted" players.
This will not apply to players added post-draft.

For Gin Fizz's Team,

Right now on his PRO team:
LW: Khokhlachev (BOS) - may not make NHL team
RW: Kapanen (TOR) - may not make NHL team
D: Reinhart (EDM) - may not make NHL team
D: Seimens (COL) - may not make NHL team

Right now on his JR team:
LW: Boucher (NJ) - may or may not make NHL team
RW: Griffith (BOS) - may or may not make NHL team
C: Zacha (NJ) - may or may not make NHL team
D: Tinordi (MON) - may or may not make NHL team
D: Morrow (BOS) - may or may not make NHL team

If all 9 of these guys start in AHL, I'm not going to force GinFizz to drop any of them.
We will allow him to keep all of his players, including some non-NHL players on his PRO team. (They won't be inactive slots for very long...)
However, if 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 start in NHL, he'll have to promote the active-NHL players to his NHL team and send any non-NHL players to Juniors.

In all likelihood, three or four of these guys will make their NHL club and this won't be much of a problem.

Sound good?

[JagrBomb]

There is good merit to GinFizz's team situation & the NHL-activity-proposal from praba.

I think we can achieve both items with a few statements:

1. When modifying rules, we must try to allow teams to keep "drafted" players. The rules were not set in stone pre-draft... so I don't want to force anybody to drop "drafted" players when we modify or clarify a rule.
2. "Drafted" junior-eligible players may be left on the PRO squad ONLY if all ten (10) players on the team's JR/Minors are: i) Original "WHL drafted" players AND ii) Not actively in the NHL.

Simply Put: Teams may NOT keep a non-NHL player on their PRO team if they have an active NHL player on the JR team.
This applies to "WHL drafted" players.
This will not apply to players added post-draft.

For Gin Fizz's Team,

Right now on his PRO team:
LW: Khokhlachev (BOS) - may not make NHL team
RW: Kapanen (TOR) - may not make NHL team
D: Reinhart (EDM) - may not make NHL team
D: Seimens (COL) - may not make NHL team

Right now on his JR team:
LW: Boucher (NJ) - may or may not make NHL team
RW: Griffith (BOS) - may or may not make NHL team
C: Zacha (NJ) - may or may not make NHL team
D: Tinordi (MON) - may or may not make NHL team
D: Morrow (BOS) - may or may not make NHL team

If all 9 of these guys start in AHL, I'm not going to force GinFizz to drop any of them.
We will allow him to keep all of his players, including some non-NHL players on his PRO team. (They won't be inactive slots for very long...)
However, if 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 start in NHL, he'll have to promote the active-NHL players to his NHL team and send any non-NHL players to Juniors.

In all likelihood, three or four of these guys will make their NHL club and this won't be much of a problem.

Sound good?

i think it's a terrible idea to allow JR (non-NHL) players on the PRO roster but i've done more than enough to advocate against it. it wont really affect me since im likely competing next year so i just hope the rebuilding guys don't complain mid-season when their "rivals" are going to get a better pick by playing less NHL players.

i'm fine with whatever commish decides