Dobber: unfairly judging Berglund?

[Dakkster]

This is from a thread from a month ago called Favorite Fives:

Dobber wrote:

Overall:
Crosby, Malkin, Price, Ovechkin, Thornton

Darlings:
Radulov, Ry. Whitney, Carcillo, Carter, Brown

Piss me off:
M. Richards, Malone, Belanger, Hejduk, Franzen

Underrated prospects:
Oshie, Frolik, Purcell, Matthias, Kulemin, Brule (six, I know but too bad)

Overrated prospects (still good...just not THAT good):
Berglund (90 pt upside, could make the team right away...but let\'s not get carried away. He didn\'t make the SEL)
Voracek (90 pt upside, could make the team right away, but has had consistency questions)
Cherepanov
JVR - great, but some years away
Caputi - I love him, but everyone seems to have christened him as making the team immediately and posting 100 points next year. Not gonna happen. Won\'t make the team this year.


Shit disturbers:
Avery, Carcillo, J. Ruutu, Ott, Neil
Love to put them out on the ice at the same time...


Small guys:
Sullivan, Gamache, Gerbe, Briere, Roy


Players who never got the ice time in Toronto, but should have:
Sullivan, John Cullen, Gamache, Pohl,

Favorite dark horse every year:
Pyatt


Off the top of my head...

About the part I bolded in Dobber\'s post: That\'s not how the Swedish hockey system works. The clubs foster a lot of players from a young age. Västerås is Berglund\'s home team and he turned down excellent contracts from each and every SEL team just to play with the team that trained him, trying to help them get into the highest tier (SEL) from the second tier (Allsvenskan). Also, the different tiers aren\'t static. Clubs move up and down based on performance and qualifying series. He viewed last season as a good chance for his team to get over the hump and get back into the SEL. So him staying in the Allsvenskan wasn\'t because he was an inadequate player, it was because he\'s a loyal player.

Holding that against Berglund is simply not good. Is that part of the reason why you pimp Oshie more than Berglund, Dobber? Now that you know this, how does your perception of Berglund change?

[lanky522]

I don\'t think that dobber\'s opinion of berglund is affected by the above any more than his opinion of oshie is affected by his decision to stay in college last year (as a loyal player to his college team)...

I think his opinion of berglund is based on his opinion of skill and potential. But that\'s just what I think...

Obviously I cannot speak for dobber, but I personally value oshie a bit more than berglund (regardless of where they played last year or why they play there)...

[Dakkster]

For myself, trying to rank Oshie and Berglund always ends up as a toss up. This thread wasn\'t about trying to convince Dobber to rank Berglund ahead of Oshie, so I guess I phrased it poorly. Basically Dobber\'s comment about Berglund made me think that Dobber thought Berglund didn\'t play in the SEL because of a lack of skill. I just wanted to clarify his reasons.

[Mister Magoo Jr.]

Holding that against Berglund is ignorant. Is that part of the reason why you pimp Oshie more than Berglund, Dobber?

Dem be fightin words!

Personally, I would not call someone \'ignant\'. It is just downright rude.

Having so said, I also prefer Oshie over Berglund.

[Fighting_Emu]

Thanks for the informative post.

I know Dobber has a tendency to root for the \"little\" guys. Hes always looking out for the next St. Louis- (see his rants on Gamache and Haydar). Chances are its just his assesment of their respective skill sets though- not my place to say.

For the record I have opted to value Berglund higher and absolutely loved what I have dug up in my research. I had a shot at either of them and opted for Heavy \"B\".

[Dakkster]

Mister Magoo Jr. wrote:

Holding that against Berglund is ignorant. Is that part of the reason why you pimp Oshie more than Berglund, Dobber?

Dem be fightin words!

Personally, I would not call someone \'ignant\'. It is just downright rude.

Having so said, I also prefer Oshie over Berglund.

Thanks for the heads up. Probably a language barrier thing. English is my second language (I\'m Swedish).

How does \"uninformed\" work?

Edit: Blah, \"uninformed\" sounds ******ed. Oh well. I don\'t mean ignorant in the rude way. I mean it in the literal sense of the word, that it simply is a statement based on lack of information/knowledge.

[Zorro]

As far as I am concerned everyone is \"ignorant\" towards certain players, coaches, and teams. Its everyday life when you are taking about hockey. You need to be ignorant. I don\'t think it is such a strong word when you are talking about ignorance and hockey.

I would also have to say Dobber needs to say things about players as he see\'s fit. He said that Berglund might be a little over-rated, he is saying this because maybe Berglund won\'t be the player everyone is thinking he will be next year. And goes on by saying that his upside is 90 points. So I can\'t speak for Dobber but I think he is just saying that Berglund is not going to be the sure thing everyone thinks he will be next year or the year after.

I personally think it will take him a year or two to get used to North American hockey, but he should be a good player for the St.Louis Blues..

Don\'t fault Sentium for his words, but Sentium don\'t fault Dobber for saying Berglund might be a bit over-rated for next year.
Zorro..

[Dakkster]

Good points, Zorro. However, I just think that if one tries to bring down the hype about a player, it should be based on correct information. I\'m fine with expressing opinions and hunches and whatever, but saying that Berglund didn\'t make the SEL is flat out false. He could\'ve played for any SEL team he wanted.

[lockedge]

I remember him going on about that but I figure it was just a bad choice of words.

I like Berglund because he\'s shown incredible commitment to improving himself, and has progressed quickly. Not that Oshie hasn\'t as well, although I don\'t think he got a whole lot better this year in College, whereas I felt Berglund made some strides. His skillset has definitely expanded.

I don\'t think anyone is underrating Oshie. I just think if it were to come between he and Berglund, in their primes, Oshie would be the 2nd line C. He\'s more versatile and defensively sound. Or something. I don\'t know what I\'m trying to say other than Oshie has a more solid 2 way game, and less dynamic offensive skills, even if Berglund is still a bit more raw right now.

Their upsides aren\'t all that different. Oshie has a 90 point upside, and Berglund\'s is 95.

[Dobber]

Thanks for the great insight on the SEL system Sentium. I didn\'t know that. A fellow GM in my league used that in negotiations, saying he didn\'t like Berglund and wasn\'t interested in him. For that reason. So the ignorance of the system is prevalent in fantasy leagues around the world (not just me haha)

And I love Berglund. I introduced most of the people here to him as a great fantasy prospect before he was drafted.

Also...check my signature...oh no, wait, that team has Oshie. My other team - the one where I\'m \"champion\". I have Berglund. So I love him.

I just took exception - at the time of that post - to how many people were saying they would rather own Berglund than Oshie. That\'s just silly. So in that aspect, he is overrated. He\'s not better than Oshie. His upside may be a TAD higher...but his certainty to reach his upside is lower. So on the balance, Oshie is the best bet in a close race.

[DAW]

Dobber I\'m going to go against you on this.. If you have the blues Brass saying they feel Berglund is there future No#1 center and don\'t say that about Oshie. The Berglund one was said at the WJC.

I also think Gms Drool when they see a guy with the skill set and size that Berglund has, and fantasy gms should also.. Not many 6;4 guys with his hands and skating...

[Dakkster]

Dobber wrote:

Thanks for the great insight on the SEL system Sentium. I didn\'t know that. A fellow GM in my league used that in negotiations, saying he didn\'t like Berglund and wasn\'t interested in him. For that reason. So the ignorance of the system is prevalent in fantasy leagues around the world (not just me haha)

And I love Berglund. I introduced most of the people here to him as a great fantasy prospect before he was drafted.

Also...check my signature...oh no, wait, that team has Oshie. My other team - the one where I\'m \"champion\". I have Berglund. So I love him.

I just took exception - at the time of that post - to how many people were saying they would rather own Berglund than Oshie. That\'s just silly. So in that aspect, he is overrated. He\'s not better than Oshie. His upside may be a TAD higher...but his certainty to reach his upside is lower. So on the balance, Oshie is the best bet in a close race.

Yeah, I can\'t imagine a lot of people staying on top of how each country\'s hockey system works. Well, now you know :P

It\'s good to temper the hype of some players sometimes. I almost \"wasted\" a draft pick on Luca Caputi when I will probably be able to pick him up in later rounds.

I totally understand your reasoning on Berglund/Oshie. I can\'t really put one of them ahead of the other.

[Crazynuck]

Sentium thx alot for the Swedish info. You just made me a happier Berglund owner. I\'m not here debate who is better cause I have expressed my opinion on Berglund many of times.

I just want to say Thx for the heads up Dobber, Thx for the Blues opinion DAW and Thx again Sentium (keep that Swedish info coming) This is what makes this site so great.

[DAW]

Your display picture also makes this site great Crazy.. Don\'t fool your self.