Kypreos tweets that Ontario captains being shopped

[MXHockey]

Perhaps they need to give Phaneuf away in a package that includes Clarkson - then they have 12 million per year in cap space cleared but they won't get much of a return.

[agentzero]

Granlund was a prospect coming into this year (who many people weren't even sure about), that's the point. Their team is very inexperienced at centre aside from Koivu, which is your argument. Turris isn't Koivu right now but he's just fine in his role and it's not like Mikko is a barnburner.

As for the bolded, exactly. You proved my point. You're focusing on just their C depth, when there are too many other factors to be a playoff team.

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Um.... I disagree with you in that it was YOUR point that Minnesota was doing just fine with its Centre depth...... vice my point which was: A) Minesota's C depth is better than Ottawa's, at least if we are comparing the top 2 anyway... and B) Minnesota is doing well for reasons beyond their C depth..

You saying: "look at Minnesota, they're doing just fine with their C depth" is an argument stating that their C depth was comparable to that of the Senators and yet they were able to achieve success... Not a later argument to piggy back mine and say that more factors come into play than C depth and that's why the Sense will achieve some success...

You were arguing on the premise that Minnesota's depth at Centre was comparable to Ottawa's, to which I disagree.

Then you stated that my saying success is predicated on more than Centre depth proves your point about Minnesota, which is incorrect on the premise, since Minnesota has better Cs than Ottawa.

And yes, Granlund was a sophomore at the beginning of this season, but I don' think you can disagree that he is superior to Turris, either when they were the same age and even at this very moment.

[theIceWookie]

Perhaps they need to give Phaneuf away in a package that includes Clarkson - then they have 12 million per year in cap space cleared but they won't get much of a return.

Why? What purpose does clearing 12 million dollars in cap space actually accomplish?

[2014olympicgold]

Good point guys, I forgot Clarkson got the best possible contract ever. I like Phaneuf, he’s been a work horse for the leafs. I would of liked the leafs to bring in someone to play with him instead of trade him. Gunnerson at 3.25mill is a lot for a 6^th/7^th defense on every other team; I would like to see him move with another player for a different D. Only reason he gets paid that is because he plays decently well with Dion. I’d take some of the bargain guys like Braun, Josi, Deckayser (?), and Andy Greene over Gunnersson. I wouldn’t say Phaneuf is a great D-man, but he is the best one the leafs have this yr, and there’s really no suitable replacement in FA this yr and that’s one of the main reasons he was able to sign for 7mil. Who could of replaced Dion come FA time?

[JagrBomb]

Why? What purpose does clearing 12 million dollars in cap space actually accomplish?

it gets rid of clarkson lol. i think 12M of cap space is worth much more than phaneuf and clarkson, if you use it wisely you can do much better. you can acquire good (Albeit a little expensive) assets cheaper, have a better chance of landing the free agent you want...but of course none of that matters if you just waste it on a clarkson type player like the leafs probably would. and the leafs ego is too high to admit they ****ed up with clarkson, so they wont dump him for nothing. gotta hope he bounces back next year, but i highly doubt he will playing under carlyle.

[theIceWookie]

it gets rid of clarkson lol. i think 12M of cap space is worth much more than phaneuf and clarkson, if you use it wisely you can do much better. you can acquire good (Albeit a little expensive) assets cheaper, have a better chance of landing the free agent you want...but of course none of that matters if you just waste it on a clarkson type player like the leafs probably would. and the leafs ego is too high to admit they ****ed up with clarkson, so they wont dump him for nothing. gotta hope he bounces back next year, but i highly doubt he will playing under carlyle.

What exactly does 12 million get them? Stastny? Fine but that can be accomplished by simply trading Phaneuf.

Giving up Phaneuf for free just to get rid of Clarkson displays everything in the bad management handbook. It's completely and utterly short sighted with no real need for it.

Clarkson's contract isn't great but in two years when the cap rises, it'll be like the Malone contract. A bad contract but completely bearable. Because the cap WILL rise. It's literally never not risen, except for a CBA mandated artificial drop.

12 million is useless until you can use it, and there is literally nothing to use that extra cap space on. Clearing it for the sake of clearing it is pointless. People are so often obsessed with cap they'll go to ridiculous lengths just get some.

It boils down to this. If Phaneuf is traded, it pretty much means that the Leafs are willing to take a step back. Losing the potential return on Phaneuf would be far more damaging than keeping Clarkson. It's just typical dumb reactionary thinking from Leaf fans freaking out again.

[JagrBomb]

What exactly does 12 million get them? Stastny? Fine but that can be accomplished by simply trading Phaneuf.

Giving up Phaneuf for free just to get rid of Clarkson displays everything in the bad management handbook. It's completely and utterly short sighted with no real need for it.

Clarkson's contract isn't great but in two years when the cap rises, it'll be like the Malone contract. A bad contract but completely bearable. Because the cap WILL rise. It's literally never not risen, except for a CBA mandated artificial drop.

12 million is useless until you can use it, and there is literally nothing to use that extra cap space on. Clearing it for the sake of clearing it is pointless. People are so often obsessed with cap they'll go to ridiculous lengths just get some.

It boils down to this. If Phaneuf is traded, it pretty much means that the Leafs are willing to take a step back. Losing the potential return on Phaneuf would be far more damaging than keeping Clarkson. It's just typical dumb reactionary thinking from Leaf fans freaking out again.

so what do you think is the potential return on phaneuf. in my eyes, leafs won't get a return big enough than removing clarkson's cap hit.

at best, i think we can get someone like gagner, and even then we'd probably have to retain salary.you trying to say keeping someone like gagner worth more than dumping clarkson's contract?

[Big Ev]

Um.... I disagree with you in that it was YOUR point that Minnesota was doing just fine with its Centre depth...... vice my point which was: A) Minesota's C depth is better than Ottawa's, at least if we are comparing the top 2 anyway... and B) Minnesota is doing well for reasons beyond their C depth..

You saying: "look at Minnesota, they're doing just fine with their C depth" is an argument stating that their C depth was comparable to that of the Senators and yet they were able to achieve success... Not a later argument to piggy back mine and say that more factors come into play than C depth and that's why the Sense will achieve some success...

You were arguing on the premise that Minnesota's depth at Centre was comparable to Ottawa's, to which I disagree.

Then you stated that my saying success is predicated on more than Centre depth proves your point about Minnesota, which is incorrect on the premise, since Minnesota has better Cs than Ottawa.

And yes, Granlund was a sophomore at the beginning of this season, but I don' think you can disagree that he is superior to Turris, either when they were the same age and even at this very moment.

Yes I can disagree to both and I believe most who have watched both lately would. He's more creative and flashy but that doesn't make him better. Koivu is better than Turris, not Granlund. Not by a long shot in terms of two-way play.

Basically you're implying Granlund is already established now. So, what's the difference between him going into this season and a Zibanejad or Lazar going into next season?

[Big Ev]

and it's flawed to say that they would be left with Turris/Zibanejad/Smith etc. as their depth. There is still free agency and other trades to make before all is said and done.

[rataylor22]

Good point guys, I forgot Clarkson got the best possible contract ever. I like Phaneuf, he’s been a work horse for the leafs. I would of liked the leafs to bring in someone to play with him instead of trade him. Gunnerson at 3.25mill is a lot for a 6^th/7^th defense on every other team; I would like to see him move with another player for a different D. Only reason he gets paid that is because he plays decently well with Dion. I’d take some of the bargain guys like Braun, Josi, Deckayser (?), and Andy Greene over Gunnersson. I wouldn’t say Phaneuf is a great D-man, but he is the best one the leafs have this yr, and there’s really no suitable replacement in FA this yr and that’s one of the main reasons he was able to sign for 7mil. Who could of replaced Dion come FA time?

Those 3 are all solid #2 defenceman on their teams under great contracts. I would wager that they are near untouchable, but if you are going to try and pry them away what are you trading? I would venture any of those 3 costs at least Kadri + good prospect/high pick. Is that worth it to Toronto? Fans? I don't really care about the Leafs so I couldn't tell you, but acquiring any of those three would be expensive. SanJay/Nash/Detroit all know how good and valuable these players are. I'm less certain, sold on Andy Greene's effectiveness/usefulness/cost.

[agentzero]

Yes I can disagree to both and I believe most who have watched both lately would. He's more creative and flashy but that doesn't make him better. Koivu is better than Turris, not Granlund. Not by a long shot in terms of two-way play.

Basically you're implying Granlund is already established now. So, what's the difference between him going into this season and a Zibanejad or Lazar going into next season?

and it's flawed to say that they would be left with Turris/Zibanejad/Smith etc. as their depth. There is still free agency and other trades to make before all is said and done.

Of course UFAs, offseason etc. changes everything etc., I was just pointing out that "as is", it didn't scream playoff team..

But to your earlier point:

Koivu > Turris
Koivu > Ziba
Granlund - Turris (let's call this a wash, since we disagree..)
Granlund > Ziba (I think you have to agree here.. Ziba is a good player and hey, I'm a fan.. but Granlund is much better IMO at this stage)

So that's 3 wins and a tie for Minnesota (or at worse, one loss)... who on the whole, have better depth at C, in my opinion, pending offseason moves...

I will be watching with interest, though not until the offeason as I must dedicate my attention to my beloved HABS!!! GO HABS GO!!


As for Phaneuf, oh boy is that a mess. Ever since that albatross contract.. He's not as bad as he is often made out to be, but with that price tag, it's gonna be hard for him to live up to that..... and the way many fans of teams like the Leafs and Habs are.. I say it's gonna be impossible for him to live up to that...

[MXHockey]

Why? What purpose does clearing 12 million dollars in cap space actually accomplish?

I was partly kidding - they should get a decent return for Phaneuf if they move him, but that Clarkson contract looks worse than Mario after Donkey Kong hits him over the head with a barrel. It makes the Luongo contract look frugal.

[Zorro]

This isn't true, he was first to tweet.

Sorry, I should have "HaHa" on the end, because I really didn't care who tweeted 1st.. I just meant to state that Kypreos always states the obvious when he has his chance on the camera..

We all know the Leafs need to make some changes.. We all know that Carlyle got a contract extension.. Every true hockey fan knows that if the coach is resigned for another two years, and the team is struggling, then there is going to need to be some changes to the players.. And if you want to make a huge change, then why not trade your overpaid captain who acts like Frankenstein most nights??

We all saw this coming, but thanks Nick for pointing out the obvious!!

At the trade deadline last season, Spezza was rumored to be heading West(ANA).. So this really wasn't breaking news.. But thank god Kypreos slept in a dumpster overnight to break this barn burner of a story to us all..

I guess I just hate how second rate Sportsnet is.. Sorry guys, thats just how I feel.. I'm going back to my dumpster now until Kypreos tells us that Reimer, Kadri, and Gardiner are bring shopped aswell.. "HaHa"

[JagrBomb]

Sorry, I should have "HaHa" on the end, because I really didn't care who tweeted 1st.. I just meant to state that Kypreos always states the obvious when he has his chance on the camera..

We all know the Leafs need to make some changes.. We all know that Carlyle got a contract extension.. Every true hockey fan knows that if the coach is resigned for another two years, and the team is struggling, then there is going to need to be some changes to the players.. And if you want to make a huge change, then why not trade your overpaid captain who acts like Frankenstein most nights??

We all saw this coming, but thanks Nick for pointing out the obvious!!

At the trade deadline last season, Spezza was rumored to be heading West(ANA).. So this really wasn't breaking news.. But thank god Kypreos slept in a dumpster overnight to break this barn burner of a story to us all..

I guess I just hate how second rate Sportsnet is.. Sorry guys, thats just how I feel.. I'm going back to my dumpster now until Kypreos tells us that Reimer, Kadri, and Gardiner are bring shopped aswell.. "HaHa"

to be fair a lot of the "insiders" do this as well. dreger used to be really good, now he just tells us the most obvious things. "carlyle wasn't fired because they still think he's the right man for the job" like no shit, if they didn't think he was the right man he wouldn't have gotten extended, thanks dreger.

[havanablast21]

phaneuf + kadri + salary retained for gagner + yakupov?

oh god i'm starting to sound like all the delusional leaf fans, time to take a break from this thread lol

Praba...quit being so damn redundant. "starting to sound like all the Leaf Fans" would suffice. Delusional is implied.

(under the breath grumble)