Fighting in the NHL

[4horsemen]

I figured this entire article was worth posting:

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/11/01...ry-tool-in-nhl

It's so incredibly strange to me that there are people who claim to watch and love hockey then turn around and call for an end to fighting as if it has no place in the game. The league is setting records for revenue so I don't see why there's any reason they should be concerned about changing the way things have always been. It's not as if peoples human rights are being violated.

[4horsemen]

Good point, but is it any better to punch a guy who is on the ice and obviously doesn´t want to fight? It´s as reckless and dangerous as a dirty hit.

Are you talking about the other player turtling on the ice and still being pounded? Anyone gutless enough to do that after delivering a dirty hit has shamed themselves more than a fight could ever do but if they take a few punches while down there I'd say they deserved what they got. Historical precedent on injuries does not back up your clam that it's just as dangerous. In fact I'd argue it's not even close.

[Dennis4022]

I´m talking about Emery. I don´t think Holtby hit anyone before.

[The Guvnah]

What are you guys even talking about? Fighting already isn't allowed, that's why you get a 5 minute penalty. Are you saying it should be more extreme? Fine, give them 7 minutes.

Yep. Fighting isn't allowed in any sport, but it happens from time to time. When it does, the ramifications are greater, which is what the NHL needs to do. If two guys want to drop the gloves and beat the shit out of each other, great! But they should know that they're missing the rest of the game and the next one if they do. If you're a repeat offender, you're missing more. Fighting had a place at one time, but I just don't see the point anymore.

[newfcollins]

Yep. Fighting isn't allowed in any sport, but it happens from time to time. When it does, the ramifications are greater, which is what the NHL needs to do. If two guys want to drop the gloves and beat the shit out of each other, great! But they should know that they're missing the rest of the game and the next one if they do. If you're a repeat offender, you're missing more. Fighting had a place at one time, but I just don't see the point anymore.

Umm.... UFC?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

[The Guvnah]

Umm.... UFC?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

Ha! I stand corrected.

A coworker and I had this argument. I said that someone will die at some point and the NHL is probably terrified of that possibility. He said that people have died in NASCAR because the drivers tear around the track at 200 mph and they didn't do anything.... to which I replied, that IS the sport! They can't take it out! Hockey will still be hockey with little to no fighting.

[forumname]

Hockey will still be hockey with little to no fighting.

I couldn't agree less. Next they will say no slap shots. Then, the skates are too sharp.

The way I see it, if fighting didn't belong in the game then it wouldn't be there. All this top-down babying in our society makes me sick. Worry about yourselves.

[SubbaNsalad]

If you don't like fighting in hockey pick a new sport to watch. I hate this debate - hockey has been the greatest sport in the world for over a 100 years... and fighting has been a part of it the entire time.

Ok so i didnt read past this post but i KNEW it was coming.. ill tell you like i do all my freinds when we discuss this...

Americas was great before the end of slavery.

Baseball was great before the advent of the DH

Basketball was great before the shot clock. 3 point line. Etc.

Ppl HATED all those things as well at first because ppl dont like change... that doesnt mean it doesnt need to happen.

I hate hockey goons. Much rather watch crosby/duchene etc dangle than clowns punch eachother n the mouth... not that i dont enjoy it at all or anything but if it were eliminated id still love hockey

[VintageVibe]

I couldn't agree less. Next they will say no slap shots. Then, the skates are too sharp.

The way I see it, if fighting didn't belong in the game then it wouldn't be there. All this top-down babying in our society makes me sick. Worry about yourselves.

I couldn't agree with more with this.

[The Guvnah]

I couldn't agree less. Next they will say no slap shots. Then, the skates are too sharp.

The way I see it, if fighting didn't belong in the game then it wouldn't be there. All this top-down babying in our society makes me sick. Worry about yourselves.

Shooting, checking, skating, blocking, etc. are all integral parts of the game. Fighting does not need to be there.

I agree that this "top-down babying" is unnecessary in society. It drives me nuts. But there are certain things that need to be taken care of. Goalies used to play without masks. All players used to play sans-helmet. I'm quite sure that when those things were made mandatory there was a considerable amount of backlash. However, it was done to protect the players and to protect the game, and the game is better for it.

Fighting is unnecessary. I'm not suggesting that the NHL should ban it, but I think it should be treated with greater severity than it is now. I used to be a huge supporter of fighting in hockey. For some reason, over the past couple of years, it was like a dial got slowly turned in my head and started to make me re-think my position. I started seeing these goons whose sole purpose was to fight and hurt opposing players. I started seeing players get concussions from fists to the face, or faces to the ice. I started hearing about former goons/enforcers/fighters/whatever battling with mental illness and substance abuse. So I started asking myself, this fighting that you love so much, is it worth it? Do you enjoy a hockey game when there are no fights? My responses were respectively no and yes.

And that's really it. A good hockey game is a good hockey game and that can include fights or not. But if you watch a good hockey game that featured no fighting, do you turn off the TV and turn to your buddy or your wife or your dog and say, "That was good hockey, but it sucked because there wasn't a fight"? NHL playoff hockey and international hockey is probably the best example of this because there is almost never any fighting, yet the level of play and dare I say, entertainment value is of the highest order. I'll admit that fighting helped draw me to the game of hockey, but it was the skill and speed that made me fall in love with it.

Anyways, I've probably had a couple too many beers and am rambling now, but I've never heard a proper argument as to why hockey needs fighting. Fights happen after clean checks and they happen after dirty checks. Fighting is allowed, yet players like Raffi Torres and Maxim Lapierre continue to hit from behind and throw blind-side elbows, so why not start taking proper action against that sort of crap and stop letting the players "police themselves" because it clearly isn't working.

[lucifer316]

Shooting, checking, skating, blocking, etc. are all integral parts of the game. Fighting does not need to be there.

I agree that this "top-down babying" is unnecessary in society. It drives me nuts. But there are certain things that need to be taken care of. Goalies used to play without masks. All players used to play sans-helmet. I'm quite sure that when those things were made mandatory there was a considerable amount of backlash. However, it was done to protect the players and to protect the game, and the game is better for it.

Fighting is unnecessary. I'm not suggesting that the NHL should ban it, but I think it should be treated with greater severity than it is now. I used to be a huge supporter of fighting in hockey. For some reason, over the past couple of years, it was like a dial got slowly turned in my head and started to make me re-think my position. I started seeing these goons whose sole purpose was to fight and hurt opposing players. I started seeing players get concussions from fists to the face, or faces to the ice. I started hearing about former goons/enforcers/fighters/whatever battling with mental illness and substance abuse. So I started asking myself, this fighting that you love so much, is it worth it? Do you enjoy a hockey game when there are no fights? My responses were respectively no and yes.

And that's really it. A good hockey game is a good hockey game and that can include fights or not. But if you watch a good hockey game that featured no fighting, do you turn off the TV and turn to your buddy or your wife or your dog and say, "That was good hockey, but it sucked because there wasn't a fight"? NHL playoff hockey and international hockey is probably the best example of this because there is almost never any fighting, yet the level of play and dare I say, entertainment value is of the highest order. I'll admit that fighting helped draw me to the game of hockey, but it was the skill and speed that made me fall in love with it.

Anyways, I've probably had a couple too many beers and am rambling now, but I've never heard a proper argument as to why hockey needs fighting. Fights happen after clean checks and they happen after dirty checks. Fighting is allowed, yet players like Raffi Torres and Maxim Lapierre continue to hit from behind and throw blind-side elbows, so why not start taking proper action against that sort of crap and stop letting the players "police themselves" because it clearly isn't working.

very nice post

i am in the same place i enjoy the fighting but i don't need the fighting and like you i find myself more and more disgusted by the consequences of it and don't feel my enjoyment should take precedence

and i totally agree with the idea about players policing themselves not working i have argued with others for year that the idea that fighting prevents anything is preposterous

[forumname]

I see where you're coming from, but how can you say what is and what isn't an "integral" part of the game? It's there, and has been there from the start, so why can't it be integral? If nothing else, it's a good outlet for anger and frustration.

Sure, if they took out fighting it would still be a great game and years from now we probably wouldn't even care, but you could treat any aspect of the game that way. Sticking with the extreme example of slap shots, you could argue the same. Surely the game could survive without them, and there would be less injuries from getting hit by shots, but would it make the game better or worse? I say it would be worse, the same as if they were to 'remove' fighting somehow.

[The Guvnah]

Too many of the league's executives think fighting should stay. While I respect people like Yzerman who say the league needs "to decide what kind of league it wants to be" I also respect people like Burke who have been in the game for decades, at all levels... and make a strong argument for why fighting needs to stay.

I don't agree with goons in the game who can do nothing else but fight.

But real hockey players, like Jarome Iginla, Francois Beachamin... these guys can drop them and throw them if someone steps out of line. A 5 minute penalty is enough in my mind.
The NHL has plenty of Kaletta-types who will step out of line more if they know there is zero chance of them getting pummelled. Like Burke once lamented... "the rats will take over the league."

That part that's bolded is exactly the problem... These ****ers keep stepping out of line! They don't care! They fight back! They do it again! Make the suspensions matter, take away their jobs! Currently, the Patrick Kaletta's don't give a shit if they get pummeled because they are ready for that. What they aren't ready for is sitting out half the season without pay because they hammered another player's head into the boards! It's so ****ing simple, and fighting has nothing to do with it.

EDIT: I realize Kaletta got put on waivers, so I guess maybe he IS getting the message. That's from the Sabres though, not the league.

[The Guvnah]

It's not that simple.
The PA may not like guys like Kaletta, but they won't sit idly by and watch one of their members get slapped with a 42 game suspension either. It just can't and won't happen.
The PA wants nothing to do with giving the league more power over its members.

And it's that kind of thinking that is hurting the league. Sit the player who committed the infraction out for 10 games, while the victim of said infraction may have to deal with concussion-related symptoms for the rest of his life. By giving the league the power to punish reckless behavior, they empower themselves.

You're right though. It won't happen. Some grinder will hammer the opposing team's star player into the boards from behind, and said star player will leave the game with an injury. A fight will ensue between two unrelated players on the team and all will be right.

[Ed.]

I could handle hockey without fighting, no problem. That said, I don't feel the need to eliminate it to protect the enforcers from concussions, long-term brain damage, etc. Educate people. Let them know the risks. Then let them do what they want to do.

More needs to be done to protect non-fighters from unprovoked instigation. Holtby for example, gave Emery no cause to go after him. That needs to be suspendable.

Or you know, take fighting out of the game because you don't think it's good for the game. Take it out because it costs 30-50 more skilled, more exciting players NHL roster spots. I'm fine with those reasons. Just don't take it out to protect the enforcers. They chose this life. They could choose to play for less money in leagues where they would succeed by their talent alone. They could choose to drive buses, sell life insurance, or become personal trainers. They want to play in the NHL. They want to fight in the NHL. I don't think it is anyone's place to protect them from doing what they want to do.