Blake Wheeler reject offer

[DIXnSYDER]

he\'ll get his. you don\'t pull shit on wayner with-out having to answer to the \"HOCKEY GODS\".

[fzusher]

Reading up on this, particularly what his agent is saying, I think I perfectly understand his decision. He\'s giving up 75000$/year for the next 3 year, but beyond that, if he pans out to potential, he\'d be getting top money no matter where he plays, so this is not going to hurt him financially.

Now, if I have to choose between two job offers in two different places, both likely to pay me the same money over the long term, I would make my decision based on things like where I want to live. I think that is a perfectly legitimate, and not at all stupid, consideration.

In fact, I wouldn\'t be surprised if this wakes other players up to the possibility that they can do this. After all, if you\'re drafted at 18, standard pattern was you were stuck until you are 25 (or much older in previous years) in terms of being able to choose where you want to live and raise a family, having to either do that in a place you might not like, or not see them for most of the year. Would any of you like it if at 18 somebody were to tell you where you were going to live and work until you were 25 or more, without any choice of your own on the matter?

The more I think of this, the more I realize that, if he does get to sign with the team where he wants to live, this was in fact a very smart and mature life decision.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...29wheeler.html

[ultrawhiteness]

fzusher wrote:

Reading up on this, particularly what his agent is saying, I think I perfectly understand his decision. He\'s giving up 75000$/year for the next 3 year, but beyond that, if he pans out to potential, he\'d be getting top money no matter where he plays, so this is not going to hurt him financially.

Now, if I have to choose between two job offers in two different places, both likely to pay me the same money over the long term, I would make my decision based on things like where I want to live. I think that is a perfectly legitimate, and not at all stupid, consideration.

In fact, I wouldn\'t be surprised if this wakes other players up to the possibility that they can do this. After all, if you\'re drafted at 18, standard pattern was you were stuck until you are 25 (or much older in previous years) in terms of being able to choose where you want to live and raise a family, having to either do that in a place you might not like, or not see them for most of the year. Would any of you like it if at 18 somebody were to tell you where you were going to live and work until you were 25 or more, without any choice of your own on the matter?

The more I think of this, the more I realize that, if he does get to sign with the team where he wants to live, this was in fact a very smart and mature life decision.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...29wheeler.html

fzusher, i gotta disagree... vehemently.

first of all, its not like the kid was drafted to play in Siberia (oops, i mean Edmonton). his team is in flippin Arizona. if you could guarantee me ice to skate on in Phoenix, i would move down there in an instant.

next, its a respect thing. young players must pay their dues, and part of that is honoring the team that felt so highly of you that they drafted you with a top 5 pick. you don\'t go pull an eric lindros and decide that you\'d rather play somewhere else.

you don\'t hear players in post-draft interviews saying, \"yeah, i\'m glad new york drafted me, but i\'ve always been a fan of that vancouver team so i think i\'ll just **** off and go play there\".

anyway, i\'m not a fan of wheeler\'s decision here. what a slap in the face to the team that drafted him and waited patiently for him while a lot of the players from his draft class are already playing in the league. bogus.

[mapletreemarty]

I concur with UW...

To get paid $1 million roughly a year as an 18 year-old to play in the NHL is not your RIGHT. You should feel privileged and God damned ****en lucky that you get to play a game that you love and get paid a hell of a lot to do it. Where\'s the respect for the team that drafted you above where you should have been anyways. You do have to pay your dues. What a shitty ass attitude... good riddance I hope he ends up rotting somewhere in the ECHL, or in Siberia :silly:

If someone paid me $60 K/yr to play hockey i\'d be happier than a pig in shit

[bwhee]

First of all...Zorro and BDog...I agree, I\'d love to see this kid play in Minnesota. Besides the fact that he\'s a good young talent, then I could more easily buy a Wild sweater with my name on it! LOL

He would be a good draw for the Wild and I think he\'d work hard in Minnesota. He was fun to watch in high school and at the U of M, even though I think the current U team has some serious attitude issues, but that\'s another potential thread.

This is definitely a turnaround for Wheeler. He was talking about how excited he was to go to the Coyotes organization, and it really didn\'t sound like lip service to me when he said it. It appears something changed in that relationship. I\'ll be listening to the local airwaves closely (although the lack of hockey knowledge on the air here is maddening sometimes) to see if I can pick up any insight. If I were producing a talk show in town, I would have had him on the phone so fast it would make his head spin.

I do worry about angering the hockey gods with this one...one mustn\'t F with The Gretz.

[ultrawhiteness]

i think the comment from GM mahoney is telling... \"I think he\'s received some bad advice\".

parents or agent probably.

[PrairieFire]

ultrawhiteness wrote:

fzusher, i gotta disagree... vehemently.

first of all, its not like the kid was drafted to play in Siberia (oops, i mean Edmonton). his team is in flippin Arizona. if you could guarantee me ice to skate on in Phoenix, i would move down there in an instant.

next, its a respect thing. young players must pay their dues, and part of that is honoring the team that felt so highly of you that they drafted you with a top 5 pick. you don\'t go pull an eric lindros and decide that you\'d rather play somewhere else.

you don\'t hear players in post-draft interviews saying, \"yeah, i\'m glad new york drafted me, but i\'ve always been a fan of that vancouver team so i think i\'ll just **** off and go play there\".

anyway, i\'m not a fan of wheeler\'s decision here. what a slap in the face to the team that drafted him and waited patiently for him while a lot of the players from his draft class are already playing in the league. bogus.

You boys gotta chill...you\'re reacting like kids that wanna take their ball home and end the game.

Whatever comes of this...just does...and whether we find out why...really doesn\'t matter...

The kid made a business decision...and make no mistake about it...Bettman\'s brand of hockey is ALL Business...

Don\'t start having the mindset of Unions and Youngsters having to PAY their dues...Bettman killed those days...and Wheeler just happens to be the first to find a loophole in Bettman\'s new NHL...

There is no transfer agreement anymore...what if these 18yo\'s start to weigh ALL their options...the NHL is NOT necessarily the right League for ALL players anymore...yes for the superstars...but what about the blue collar players...that are 3rd and 4th line guys and struggle to put in a ten to twelve year career?
They may have better luck and make more cash in Russia...and some of these guys are an integral part of the NHL...albeit not paid as such...
So getting back to Wheeler...none of us know whether it is a good decision or bad decision for him to do this...but make no mistake...he won\'t be the last to do it...unless Gary and his Management team close the loophole...

There was talk of respect for the team that drafted him...why...are they willing to guarantee his future...of course not...if he blows a knee out in University...what will they do for him...NOTHING...he is a commodity...only now...he is a commodity with an option...

Baseball has had this for years...and so has hockey...Florida just barely kept Frolik by signing him this week...

Think about it what you have said boys...pay his dues...to what I ask...he only owes things to his family...just like you and me...those days are over...and if he would rather make 75,000 less for 3 years...and live where he wants to...(not everyone loves the senior gated communities of Phoenix you know)...then I say good for him...because just like your Union pays you for a sick day...because it\'s YOUR right...so is this his right...

My two cents

[lockedge]

If you decide to enter yourself in the draft, be prepared to go down a two way street. The team that drafts you will help your development, and you will strive to make your potential. The draft raises your \"stock\", and morally it\'s unfair to just snub the team that drafted you. There is the ability to opt into and opt out of the draft. if you\'re not willing to commit yourselves to the team, then don\'t bother.

It\'s less a legal issue than an attitude/code issue. Phoenix drafted a kid that probably would have gone 2nd round in the #5 spot because they fully believed he\'d be a big part of their future. He did well in College and Wheeler would have gotten every chance to make the Coyotes lineup.

As for injuries in college/uni and teams not supporting the player...look at Mike Morris. When he had his near-career ending injury, the San Jose org helped make sure he recovered, and continued to give him a chance to make the team.

Legally, Wheeler was well within his rights to do what he did. There\'s no question to that. All that it reveals is that he has an attitude problem. If I\'m at work and I know next sunday\'s going to be absolute hell, and I take a sick day that day, I\'m definitely going to get a verbal ass-whooping because of it. I\'ll deserve it too. Same applies here.

[PrairieFire]

lockedge wrote:

If you decide to enter yourself in the draft, be prepared to go down a two way street. The team that drafts you will help your development, and you will strive to make your potential. The draft raises your \"stock\", and morally it\'s unfair to just snub the team that drafted you. There is the ability to opt into and opt out of the draft. if you\'re not willing to commit yourselves to the team, then don\'t bother.

It\'s less a legal issue than an attitude/code issue. Phoenix drafted a kid that probably would have gone 2nd round in the #5 spot because they fully believed he\'d be a big part of their future. He did well in College and Wheeler would have gotten every chance to make the Coyotes lineup.

As for injuries in college/uni and teams not supporting the player...look at Mike Morris. When he had his near-career ending injury, the San Jose org helped make sure he recovered, and continued to give him a chance to make the team.

Legally, Wheeler was well within his rights to do what he did. There\'s no question to that. All that it reveals is that he has an attitude problem. If I\'m at work and I know next sunday\'s going to be absolute hell, and I take a sick day that day, I\'m definitely going to get a verbal ass-whooping because of it. I\'ll deserve it too. Same applies here.

Where do I begin...

What did Phoenix do for this kid to help him develop...when he went to college?

The kid entered the draft...because it\'s there...he owes the team that drafts them NOTHING...unless you are talking morals...and don\'t get me started as I\'ll start bringing up what a few teams have done that is unscrupulous and without morals...

Once he signs a contract...he owes them time...and they owe him money...why is this important...because it\'s business...and again...that\'s why he enters the draft...because it\'s a good BUSINESS decision...nothing else...

And NO...the draft DOES NOT raise your stock...(in fact it doesn\'t even mean a pay raise anymore)...however, your last year in Junior or College...or a great WJC can really raise your stock...

Yes the odd time a SJ team will go the extra mile...but generally only if it\'s a good business decision...for them...(even if it\'s great publicity)...

I just can\'t believe that so many people seem to buy what Managements\' selling about a code..or because someone walks out of line...they have an attitude...they have you hook, line and sinker...much the same as your boss saying they\'ll close the plant if you strike...as he drives off in his new caddy...

Now if you are talking about snubbing a team (or province) the way Lindros did...I agree...forcing a team to trade you is NOT a good business decision...but this Wheeler thing just makes him an UFA...how can that be bad for him...of course they\'ll want you to believe he is recieving bad advice...because what if all the kids did this...think about that...

Nope...it ain\'t personal...it\'s business my friend...and the times...they are a changing...

[blades]

Agreed that he\'s within his rights to make this choice. When applying MY code of right and wrong to this situation, i think he made a mistake, but i recognize that this is only my code. Blake made a decision that he\'s comfortable with and only time will tell if it works out well for him.

I do think we\'ll see more of this type of move in the future. I teach at a college and my experiences over the past decade (i\'m pushing 40) suggest that my morality is vastly different that that of my students\' generation. They are more ego-centric, concerned with how things impact them in the short-term, etc. etc. etc.

I\'m not saying this attitude is wrong, it\'s just the way it is. For those of you who are a bit older and don\'t interact with 15-25 year olds a lot, you\'d be surprised by how much a lot of them don\'t think the same way that you do.

[lockedge]

PrairieFire wrote:

lockedge wrote:

If you decide to enter yourself in the draft, be prepared to go down a two way street. The team that drafts you will help your development, and you will strive to make your potential. The draft raises your \"stock\", and morally it\'s unfair to just snub the team that drafted you. There is the ability to opt into and opt out of the draft. if you\'re not willing to commit yourselves to the team, then don\'t bother.

It\'s less a legal issue than an attitude/code issue. Phoenix drafted a kid that probably would have gone 2nd round in the #5 spot because they fully believed he\'d be a big part of their future. He did well in College and Wheeler would have gotten every chance to make the Coyotes lineup.

As for injuries in college/uni and teams not supporting the player...look at Mike Morris. When he had his near-career ending injury, the San Jose org helped make sure he recovered, and continued to give him a chance to make the team.

Legally, Wheeler was well within his rights to do what he did. There\'s no question to that. All that it reveals is that he has an attitude problem. If I\'m at work and I know next sunday\'s going to be absolute hell, and I take a sick day that day, I\'m definitely going to get a verbal ass-whooping because of it. I\'ll deserve it too. Same applies here.

Where do I begin...

What did Phoenix do for this kid to help him develop...when he went to college?

The kid entered the draft...because it\'s there...he owes the team that drafts them NOTHING...unless you are talking morals...and don\'t get me started as I\'ll start bringing up what a few teams have done that is unscrupulous and without morals...

Once he signs a contract...he owes them time...and they owe him money...why is this important...because it\'s business...and again...that\'s why he enters the draft...because it\'s a good BUSINESS decision...nothing else...

And NO...the draft DOES NOT raise your stock...(in fact it doesn\'t even mean a pay raise anymore)...however, your last year in Junior or College...or a great WJC can really raise your stock...

Yes the odd time a SJ team will go the extra mile...but generally only if it\'s a good business decision...for them...(even if it\'s great publicity)...

I just can\'t believe that so many people seem to buy what Managements\' selling about a code..or because someone walks out of line...they have an attitude...they have you hook, line and sinker...much the same as your boss saying they\'ll close the plant if you strike...as he drives off in his new caddy...

Nope...it ain\'t personal...it\'s business my friend...and the times...they are a changing...

How many thousands of players have stuck out the first few years in a team they might not have chosen to go to?
What, because of what Wheeler did yesterday, we\'ll be seeing kids flock to the Maple Leafs org to sign up because it\'s their \'childhood dream\" and every kid in Canada wants to be a leaf?

No. Getting drafted is nice. Some view it as an honour, but that\'s mainly just to make it seem as if they\'re incredibly humble.

The reality is that players need to earn their dues. Patrick O\'Sullivan had the talent to be a top line guy the year Anze Kopitar rose to stardom, but he toiled away on the 3rd and 4th lines. Why? Because he had to earn that spot on the roster, he wasn\'t going to be given it.

Blake Wheeler, with this decision, seems to want the Brunnstrom hype. He wants \"control of his future\". Maybe he wants guaranteed ice time. A top two line spot.
He might have the talent, but he doesn\'t seem to have the mindset with this. He doesn\'t sound like a kid who\'s willing to work hard. He sounds like a kid who takes his ball and goes home, and is selfish.

He\'s not willing to commit to a team. He was a college star and wants to be an NHL star. No fault in that thinking, but this decision shines light on his work ethic. He had potentially Vrbata and Doan in front of him, with McLean/Porter behind him. Maybe he didn\'t feel like he was guaranteed the ice time he wanted immediately, or maybe he just didn\'t want to do the work to get to where he wanted to be.

Lots of questions pop up because of his decision. Legally, he did things within his rights, but so do lawyers and they can be morally and ethically vacant at the best of times.

And it\'s true that NHL teams can\'t coach a kid in college, but you\'re talking as if they don\'t send guys down to keep tabs on their kids and generally pester the college about development. Yeah, they\'re going to go think \"Well, the kid we picked 5th overall is heading to college. We\'ll just forget about him for a few years and hope he\'s ready then\".

You\'re saying that if Steve Stamkos had opted out of the draft completely until he was UFA eligible, he would still get the press he gets, the hype he gets, etc.
His talent assures that he\'d get coverage, but not as early as he\'s gotten it. If you\'re farther down in the draft, and you\'re picked by a team, it\'s a noteworthy accomplishment. There was much fanfare about how many NHL drafted kids there were on Kitchener in the Memorial Cup, for instance.

You\'re talking like a business major. That\'s fine, but you\'re out of touch with the hockey mentality(at least the mentality that I\'ve known, heard, and experienced). If I\'m the coach of the team Blake Wheeler signs with, I\'m giving him hellish practices to see what he\'s made of, because I immediately question his ethic and his ability to play with a team. I\'m thinking \"Here\'s a kid who thinks he\'s bigger than the system. Here\'s a kid who thinks he holds all the cards.\" The last thing any coach wants is a yashin-clone on their team, and while this situation is WAY far off from being close to that, there\'s question to his character. Those questions require answers. I hope he has good answers.

[Dobber]

PrairieFire wrote:

lockedge wrote:

If you decide to enter yourself in the draft, be prepared to go down a two way street. The team that drafts you will help your development, and you will strive to make your potential. The draft raises your \"stock\", and morally it\'s unfair to just snub the team that drafted you. There is the ability to opt into and opt out of the draft. if you\'re not willing to commit yourselves to the team, then don\'t bother.

It\'s less a legal issue than an attitude/code issue. Phoenix drafted a kid that probably would have gone 2nd round in the #5 spot because they fully believed he\'d be a big part of their future. He did well in College and Wheeler would have gotten every chance to make the Coyotes lineup.

As for injuries in college/uni and teams not supporting the player...look at Mike Morris. When he had his near-career ending injury, the San Jose org helped make sure he recovered, and continued to give him a chance to make the team.

Legally, Wheeler was well within his rights to do what he did. There\'s no question to that. All that it reveals is that he has an attitude problem. If I\'m at work and I know next sunday\'s going to be absolute hell, and I take a sick day that day, I\'m definitely going to get a verbal ass-whooping because of it. I\'ll deserve it too. Same applies here.

Where do I begin...

What did Phoenix do for this kid to help him develop...when he went to college?

The kid entered the draft...because it\'s there...he owes the team that drafts them NOTHING...unless you are talking morals...and don\'t get me started as I\'ll start bringing up what a few teams have done that is unscrupulous and without morals...

Once he signs a contract...he owes them time...and they owe him money...why is this important...because it\'s business...and again...that\'s why he enters the draft...because it\'s a good BUSINESS decision...nothing else...

And NO...the draft DOES NOT raise your stock...(in fact it doesn\'t even mean a pay raise anymore)...however, your last year in Junior or College...or a great WJC can really raise your stock...

Yes the odd time a SJ team will go the extra mile...but generally only if it\'s a good business decision...for them...(even if it\'s great publicity)...

I just can\'t believe that so many people seem to buy what Managements\' selling about a code..or because someone walks out of line...they have an attitude...they have you hook, line and sinker...much the same as your boss saying they\'ll close the plant if you strike...as he drives off in his new caddy...

Now if you are talking about snubbing a team (or province) the way Lindros did...I agree...forcing a team to trade you is NOT a good business decision...but this Wheeler thing just makes him an UFA...how can that be bad for him...of course they\'ll want you to believe he is recieving bad advice...because what if all the kids did this...think about that...

Nope...it ain\'t personal...it\'s business my friend...and the times...they are a changing...

These are great points, and exactly why you should be wary of this guy in your fantasy league. He values $ over hockey...even though he is actually turning down MORE money this way.

Dumb move that he will live to regret.
A) his rep is damaged, which hurts his wallet over the years
B ) his wallet is slightly lighter, because a new team can\'t pay him as much
C) soupsandwich joked about this, but it\'s true - he pissed off one of the most powerful men in hockey. Think about it: if you are a GM and you are on the fence with a counter offer that Wheeler\'s agent gave you. You call up your friend Wayne over in Phoenix. After a 10-minute conversation...you throw the counter proposal in the garbage. Again - the wallet becomes lighter.

[ultrawhiteness]

PrairieFire, i get your argument (not really), but this isn\'t some business grad just out of school spurning the first job offer he gets because he wants to live closer to his mommy.

What has Phoenix invested in this kid? They drafted him with a 5th overall pick!! If he didn\'t want to play in Arizona, he should have been up front with them.. then they could have used that pick to select Radulov, Meszaros, Green, Schneider, Wolski, Olesz, Smid, Chipchurra, Zajac, Grossman, Krejci, Goligoski, Schultz... players who all want to play in the NHL more than anything and don\'t care who its for. Do you get my point?

OR, he could quietly say to management: \"Look, I appreciate very much that you drafted me and believe in my future, but I\'m not really a fan of super hot weather, so I don\'t think I\'ll ever sign with you. But you\'ve been so kind to draft me that high, maybe you\'d like the opportunity to trade my rights for another player or draft pick and actually get something of value for me?\"

Same result, but now you\'ve shown enough respect to your employer that they won\'t go around slandering you to all their buddies (who are also potential employers).

If someone came to me when I was just getting out of school and offered me a million dollars to work for them for 3 years doing my DREAM job, I wouldn\'t tell them to go **** themselves.

[lockedge]

ultrawhiteness wrote:

PrairieFire, i get your argument (not really), but this isn\'t some business grad just out of school spurning the first job offer he gets because he wants to live closer to his mommy.

What has Phoenix invested in this kid? They drafted him with a 5th overall pick!! If he didn\'t want to play in Arizona, he should have been up front with them.. then they could have used that pick to select Radulov, Meszaros, Green, Schneider, Wolski, Olesz, Smid, Chipchurra, Zajac, Grossman, Krejci, Goligoski, Schultz... players who all want to play in the NHL more than anything and don\'t care who its for. Do you get my point?

OR, he could quietly say to management: \"Look, I appreciate very much that you drafted me and believe in my future, but I\'m not really a fan of super hot weather, so I don\'t think I\'ll ever sign with you. But you\'ve been so kind to draft me that high, maybe you\'d like the opportunity to trade my rights for another player or draft pick and actually get something of value for me?\"

Same result, but now you\'ve shown enough respect to your employer that they won\'t go around slandering you to all their buddies (who are also potential employers).

If someone came to me when I was just getting out of school and offered me a million dollars to work for them for 3 years doing my DREAM job, I wouldn\'t tell them to go **** themselves.

Pretty much spot on. Up until seemingly the last minute, Wheeler seemed on the train, and he suddenly jumped off.
It\'s a big \"**** You\" to the Coyotes organization, and it doesn\'t sit well with me. He had oodles of time to prepare his decision and give notice to Phoenix. He didn\'t.

[PrairieFire]

The thing is he is within his rights to do what he did...and I do not understand the mentality that he did something wrong.

The CBA has this as a right for a college kid who decides he wants to sign with who he chooses.

It also says that if a player is drafted he must be signed by a certain time or the drafting team loses his rights.

These are not bad things...these are a players rights...whether Gretz gets pissed or not...

I know hockey mentality and I know hockey business and I know young people today...that\'s why I stated that the times they are a changing...this will be moot within 3 years...mark my words...others will follow...

I believe Blake wants to sign for his hometeam...and that Minnesota will happily oblige him...it\'s that simple...

To make such an issue out of this is ridiculous...and another media driven conspiracy...

Fantasy wise I\'d be cautious...but I really don\'y understand fan mentality that players OWE something to anyone other than the coaches, players and family that have helped them along the way...

Personally the youth of today is far more \"me first\" in their approach to life and people of my generation are having very hard time when they come into the workplace because again...the second they are hired...they expect the exact same respect as someone who has been their 25 years...

Don\'t get me wrong...do I believe in what they are doing...no...I wasn\'t brought up that way...but somewhere down the road...my generation screwed up and brought this on ourselves...

All I\'m saying is he didn\'t do anything wrong...except piss off Gretz...and he\'s a professional...he\'ll get over it...

If you think for one minute that holding a grudge works in sports...you are dead wrong...one minute you hate Avery...the next he\'s on your team...it\'s part of the sport...just like making business decisions...that are right for you...because like it or not...this sport is not about fans anymore...none of the big sports are...they are about corporate sponsorship...huge tv deals and big business...

How many real fans go to the SuperBowl...at 1000 a pop...not many...so when players start to excersise their rights as an entity...don\'t begruge them their choice...and don\'t be surprised by it...it was inevitable...it\'s the new NHL...

By the way Dobbs...you suggest that he values Money over hockey...but perhaps he values his family life more than either...and is quite happy making less and playing at home...and if that story turns out to be true...then I admire the kid...

Only time will tell whether this choice was right for him or not...and you know what...if it turns out bad...well he won\'t be the first 21yo to make a bad choice will he...and he probably won\'t be the last