Kopitar

[Zorro]

Here are the stats..

Patrice Bergeron has played 579 games in the NHL, 433 points, plus 70, 46 PPG's, 7 SHG's, and 29 game winners..

Anze Kopitar has played 522 games in the NHL, 476 points, plus 13, 54 PPG's, 9 SHG's, and 18 game winners..

I would have to say that Kopitar has the edge with the puck and Bergeron has the edge without the puck..

[lucifer316]

points are only one factor in a player's value. what these two guys do without the puck is what seperates them from so many others. i would have no trouble stating both are top 10 skaters in the game - far more valuable than guys like perry or parise, who were mentioned above. there is a reason these guys are winners and why a guy like bergeron has won at every level he has ever played at.

points is a pretty big factor in fantasy value after all people seemed to be saying how kopitar wasnt very valuable fantasy wise just because he isnt a 100 point player (of course ignoring that the team isnt swimming in 100 point players)

i think that fantasy wise kopitar and bergeron arent really in the same league to be honest with you which is why i didnt understand the comparison

there are tons of players in the league who are more valuable in real life than fantasy that doesnt make them all good comparisons to each other and i felt these two arent

as for kopitar himself i think people are selling him short fantasy wise just because he isnt a 100 point player even though there were only 2 100 point players in 11-12

[27Blue]

fair enough. i was talking real hockey value, not fantasy value.

i thought that was the direction the thread had taken. my bad.

kopitar is obviously in a different league when it comes to fantasy.

[lucifer316]

fair enough. i was talking real hockey value, not fantasy value.

i thought that was the direction the thread had taken. my bad.

kopitar is obviously in a different league when it comes to fantasy.

yeah i understand what you are getting at but where do you draw the line with comparisons though

yes both are more valuable in real life than fantasy (i actually believe kopitars value difference is much smaller than others) but without the numbers being close i personally dont like comparing them even if the roles are the similar

career average is 13 points difference per 82 games between the two to me thats sizable

i mean i wouldnt personally compare kopitar to datsyuk but that would be a similar comparison points wise

i get what you are saying i just like comparing players with closer numbers better to be honest maybe its me

[lucifer316]

i am sorry datsyuk isnt even the right comparison i was looking at his ppg post lockout instead of career where i looked at career for bergeron and kopitar

it would actually be someone with a better career ppg than datsyuk

there isnt someone who has a similar ppg to that spread

better than stamkos less than malkin

[rataylor22]

points is a pretty big factor in fantasy value after all people seemed to be saying how kopitar wasnt very valuable fantasy wise just because he isnt a 100 point player (of course ignoring that the team isnt swimming in 100 point players)

i think that fantasy wise kopitar and bergeron arent really in the same league to be honest with you which is why i didnt understand the comparison

there are tons of players in the league who are more valuable in real life than fantasy that doesnt make them all good comparisons to each other and i felt these two arent

as for kopitar himself i think people are selling him short fantasy wise just because he isnt a 100 point player even though there were only 2 100 point players in 11-12

You really gotta calm down and read what people say. I never once said that Kopitar wasn't very valuable fantasy-wise. Shit, there are barely any 100-point players in the league, so saying someone isn't valuable for that reason is just ******ed. Fantasy-wise they are probably close to the same tier of centers, but that is just my opinion and didn't even enter my mind when I made that comparison. The reason they are very comparable as an example is their style of play. Because both are so strong defensively as two way centers their offensive value is capped. That is regardless of coach and system because every coach will use them the same way. They will always draw the toughest defensive assignments on their team which means less O-zone starts and more energy spent on defense, which leaves less for offense. They also play a very similar style of play, Kopitar a bit more physical because he is bigger. IN THAT RESPECT THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME PLAYER. Calm your man boner down and read what is being said before you curl into a pissy defensive shell about it. If you can't see that comparison then you don't watch very much hockey.

[lucifer316]

you said he was a patrice bergeron type player

sorry but when a player is called another type of player generally they have similar production and that isnt the case here

i dont see that kopitar is a patrice bergeron type player at all to be honest

now bergeron might be a kopitar lite i could see that statement being made but to call kopitar a patrice bergeron type player is insulting imo

you dont compare a better player to a lesser player you compare a lesser player to a better player

i could see if you even said think patrice bergeron with a lot more points but thats not what was said

i am not getting defensive at all i just think that it was an inaccurate comparison

[rataylor22]

Well then I stick by my statement. In terms of how they play and the value they add to their team, Kopitar is Bergeron-lite.

[lucifer316]

Well then I stick by my statement. In terms of how they play and the value they add to their team, Kopitar is Bergeron-lite.

kopitar is bergeron lite

wow just wow

[rataylor22]

kopitar is bergeron lite

wow just wow

Bergeron has 11 points in 16 games, is +4, and is still in the playoffs. Consequently, as much as I hate to admit it his line did a very good job of shutting down the Crosby line.

Kopitar has 9 points in 18 games, is -2, and is out of the playoffs. He did not do all that good of job of shutting down Toews/Kane/Sharp.

[Kofax]

Here are the stats..

Patrice Bergeron has played 579 games in the NHL, 433 points, plus 70, 46 PPG's, 7 SHG's, and 29 game winners..

Anze Kopitar has played 522 games in the NHL, 476 points, plus 13, 54 PPG's, 9 SHG's, and 18 game winners..

I would have to say that Kopitar has the edge with the puck and Bergeron has the edge without the puck..

Well done Zorro. I really like this comparison. I thought Kopitar to be the far better player, but this really brings it into perspective that I have been undervaluing Bergeron.

[MJ Flex]

Great thread. Started off normal then got interesting and almost got the point where it would have became nasty. Glad it didn't get there though.

Kopitar will be just fine. And I would take Kopi over Bergeron.

[davidgoodburn]

I am hoping it is a blip on the radar, though the big concern for me this year was his lack of SOG. One fo the things that makes him a good fantasy option. His point ceiling is not that much higher than a lot of other Centers but his typically elite +/- and SOG make him a cornerstone of a fantasy team.

That said if his SOG don't return he loses a lot of fantasy value.

As a side note. If he played in a major market and was Canadian we'd be inundated with his leadership and talent ala Toews.

[CT-Chill]

well, I've got a lot of rep to hand out here... seeing as I'm still pretty new and low rep power, will probably take a while.. thanks for the awesome discussion though.

With regards to a comparison between him and Bergeron, Kopi definitely has the edge in my opinion. Bergeron is underrated in my mind too but still not the staple center for the Bruins as I feel he might be dethroned of that accolade sooner than later by Krejci. It's good to see that not too many people are concerned about Kopi and with regards to his shot totals they were uncharacteristically low all season. I do think that this was a blip however and I think that the Kings will have to adjust a little bit once the division realignment takes place. They'll be playing against quite a few high scoring offenses and that will simply mean that they have to start putting more biscuit in the basket.

thanks again for the discussion.

[fungchen3]

CT,

Frankenberry will never hit 100 points, I can pretty much guarantee that. He plays a full sheet and his coach won't tolerate riverboat gambling. However, he will be a steady diet of 75-85 with the ability to break 90. His perfect season could net him 38G/54A/92Pts but there will only be 1 or 2 of those if we're lucky. The good thing about owning Kopitar is that he's steady and reliable - I love that. I made the mistake of trading him once - now that I reacquired him 2 years ago, he's going to retire on my squad. And, yes, Kopitar over Bergeron, no doubt about it.