Subban holdout might end in trade?

[MXHockey]

What... I never compared Subban to those guys...

But to me, the best comparable is John Carlson. Similar offensive production, both were given tough defensive assignments. Subban is more physical, and there is something more about his game.

Carlson agreed to 23M$/6 years, so roughly 4M$ per.

Subbanwill ultimately make more money than that, but 4M$ is the max he should get on his next contract.

You're right, it was bnhershey that brought these players into the discussion.

Carlson is a decent comparable, but with Green in the picture and making more, the Caps had a good argument to pay him that amount. Subban doesn't have anyone ahead of him (like Green on the Caps), and can demand more.

[Carcillo]

Interesting note, the Kessel trade actually netted Boston less than an offer sheet for the contract Kessel signed would have. (two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd vs the two 1st and the 2nd they got. but i doubt they're dissapointed by that in the slightest :P)

Isn't it the other way round? Burke payed more than offer sheeting Kessel would have cost? Can't remember the actual offer sheet compensations from that year but wouldn't offer sheet have cost only one 1st round pick, 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick?

[habs83]

why wouldnt a team like detroit just offer sheet his ass? 5 year 6M. i'm tired of this, stop trying to underpay the kid, you have to overpay a bit to keep a player in montreal plain and simple. habs should easily be offering a 5 year 5M deal as a minimum.

I don't think that we will see an offer sheet soon...this season at least.

The owners just locked the league out and cried that too much money was offered to the players. One of their complains was that the second contracts were getting out of hands. What the offer sheet does is exactly what the owners and GMs were complaining about.

There will be offer sheet offers in the future, but I doubt it will be this year.

But if I'm wrong, the Habs will match any offer, unless it is something ridiculous like Drew Doughty numbers.

[habs83]

You're right, it was bnhershey that brought these players into the discussion.

Carlson is a decent comparable, but with Green in the picture and making more, the Caps had a good argument to pay him that amount. Subban doesn't have anyone ahead of him (like Green on the Caps), and can demand more.

I think that Green and Markov are pretty good comparaisons in both cases. Both, if healthy, are #1 on their teams, but both weren't healthy at all in the last two seasons.

That is why both young Dmen were given added responsibilities faster than their respective teams would have like. But both of them were up to the task.

[habs83]

Isn't it the other way round? Burke payed more than offer sheeting Kessel would have cost? Can't remember the actual offer sheet compensations from that year but wouldn't offer sheet have cost only one 1st round pick, 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick?

You are right... I don't have the exact offer either, but I remember that Burke gave more to the Bruins than what the offer sheet compensation was.

[MXHockey]

I think that Green and Markov are pretty good comparaisons in both cases. Both, if healthy, are #1 on their teams, but both weren't healthy at all in the last two seasons.

That is why both young Dmen were given added responsibilities faster than their respective teams would have like. But both of them were up to the task.

Agreed about the added responsibility. Both players have proven themselves as a result.

But comparing Green to Markov? Green put elite numbers up that haven't been seen in a long time. Green is much younger, and should be around for 5-8 more years at least.

Markov missed a ton of time, is much older, and has been unreliable due to injury. Two years from now, Markov won't be a factor, Green could be and should be a factor if he lives up to the contract he just got from the Caps.

[Bnhershy]

i was pretty sure it was the other way around. but i'll take your guys' word for it.

[habs83]

i was pretty sure it was the other way around. but i'll take your guys' word for it.

No, you shouldn't. Just checked it, and you were right...

[habs83]

Agreed about the added responsibility. Both players have proven themselves as a result.

But comparing Green to Markov? Green put elite numbers up that haven't been seen in a long time. Green is much younger, and should be around for 5-8 more years at least.

Markov missed a ton of time, is much older, and has been unreliable due to injury. Two years from now, Markov won't be a factor, Green could be and should be a factor if he lives up to the contract he just got from the Caps.

And in two years, Subban will be able to sign for Markov's money and more... the cap will be higher, and Markov will be off the books. Just take the two-year bridge contract P.K.!!

The guys in the room all did that, and even if they will not say it in the medias, they will be pissed at P.K. if he continue to put himself ahead of the team.

[Carcillo]

No, you shouldn't. Just checked it, and you were right...

No he wasn't. As I said Burke paid more than offer sheet would have cost:

"The notion that the Leafs are ready to make Kessel an offer got added credibility over the weekend, when Toronto reacquired its 2010 second-round pick from Chicago for second- and third-rounders in 2011. Getting back their own No. 2 for next year means the Leafs have their first, second and third picks, which would just happen to be the required compensation for the Maple Leafs to sign Kessel to a deal worth between $4.52 million and $6.02 million per season."

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...uins-stalement

[habs83]

No he wasn't. As I said Burke paid more than offer sheet would have cost:



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...uins-stalement

This is from the former CBA available here : http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366

10.4 Draft Choice Compensation for Restricted Free Agents

Any Club that is entitled to but does not exercise its Right of First Refusal
pursuant to Section 10.3 shall be entitled to obtain Draft Choice Compensation from the
New Club. The number and quality of draft choices due to the Prior Club shall be based
on the average annual value of the compensation contained in the Principal Terms (as
defined in Section 10.3(e) hereof) of the New Club's Offer Sheet (determined by dividing
such compensation by the lesser of the number of years of the Offer Sheet or five), based
on the following scale:

GROUP 2 COMPENSATION CHART
OFFER SHEET COMPENSATION
$660,000 or below None
Over $660,000 to $1 million Third Round
Over $1 million to $2.0 million Second Round
Over $2.0 million to $3.0 million First Round and Third Round
Over $3.0 million to $4.0 million First Round, Second Round, and Third Round
Over $4.0 million to $5.0 million Two First Rounds, Second Round, and Third Round
Over $5 million Four First Rounds

kessel signed for a cap hit of 5.4M$

But it's weird... I remember saying to myself that it was strange that Burke offered more than the offer sheet.

[Carcillo]

kessel signed for a cap hit of 5.4M$

But it's weird... I remember saying to myself that it was strange that Burke offered more than the offer sheet.

The offer sheet compensation range changes each year based on the cap. Those compensations you listed were from the start of that CBA so for season 2005-06. The money required for the higher compensation raised each year since and at the time of Kessel signing a $6 million contract would only have brought back a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd in compensation.

[habs83]

The offer sheet compensation range changes each year based on the cap. Those compensations you listed were from the start of that CBA so for season 2005-06. The money required for the higher compensation raised each year since and at the time of Kessel signing a $6 million contract would only have brought back a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd in compensation.

That makes perfect sense, thanks!

[MXHockey]

And in two years, Subban will be able to sign for Markov's money and more... the cap will be higher, and Markov will be off the books. Just take the two-year bridge contract P.K.!!

The guys in the room all did that, and even if they will not say it in the medias, they will be pissed at P.K. if he continue to put himself ahead of the team.

I get what you're saying, but Subban doesn't care, and sees himself as more valuable than those guys were when they signed their 'bridge' contracts.

[Luffy D Monkey]

Did you guys ever get the sense that the Kings locker room was bitter towards Doughty after he held out?

Both guys are pretty integral to their teams' success and their sitting out hurts the team as games are getting burnt.

Doughty didn't get passed the cup for quite awhile.