Subban holdout might end in trade?

[Carcillo]

garth snow is not be capable of making a good deal for his team. cross this one out.

But he's great in contract negotiations. Maybe Montreal should hire him to make a deal with Subban.

[Casey Jones]

garth snow is not be capable of making a good deal for his team. cross this one out.

Hahaha ya maybe I was giving him too much credit

[Bnhershy]

A Subban for Nino+ would be a disaster. NO THANK YOU

[habs83]

That said, as I posted last year, I would offer him long term at $5M+ per year, but based on all that's happened since, I get the distinct impression that Habs management is very concerned about his impact in the locker room - I have heard from people close to current NHL players that he is not at all liked in the room, apart from his buddy Price.

We discussed this briefly in the Habs post.

http://forums.dobbersports.com/showt...88429&page=171

I am not disputing the fact that P.K. is an important part of the team going forward, but Bergevin can't to this for two main reasons:

1) No one is bigger than the team, and every other star on the team (Price, Pacioretty and, to a lesser extent, Gorges) followed the same path, which is to sign the bridge contract before cashing in.

2) Pure cap maths. For this one, I will refer you to the above post. But to sum it up, the Habs don't have 5M$ under the cap next season, even if Kaberle is bought out, so if Subban is signed for 5M+, Bergevin will be forced into a trade to shed salary.

[habs83]

A Subban for Nino+ would be a disaster. NO THANK YOU

Agreed... If, and that's a big IF, the Habs trade Subban, a young stud defenseman better come the other way. I keep reading that the Habs should target a big winger, but the future core of this team is Price-Subban-Galchenyuk-Pacioretty. Trading Subban creates a hole on the defense going forward. Beaulieu is not ready, and probably won't be as good as Subban, and there is no one else that can do what Subban does on the ice.

Unless a guy like Ekman-Larsson, Hamilton, Dumba, Murray, etc. is in play, keeping Subban is the way to go.

[MXHockey]

We discussed this briefly in the Habs post.

http://forums.dobbersports.com/showt...88429&page=171

I am not disputing the fact that P.K. is an important part of the team going forward, but Bergevin can't to this for two main reasons:

1) No one is bigger than the team, and every other star on the team (Price, Pacioretty and, to a lesser extent, Gorges) followed the same path, which is to sign the bridge contract before cashing in.

2) Pure cap maths. For this one, I will refer you to the above post. But to sum it up, the Habs don't have 5M$ under the cap next season, even if Kaberle is bought out, so if Subban is signed for 5M+, Bergevin will be forced into a trade to shed salary.

Subban and his agent are probably thinking "this isn't our problem". Plus, Subban is more proven than Price and MaxPac were going into their respective negotiations. Price had extra leverage because of the entire Halak trade.

No question players signing contracts now should expect a bit less than they would've fectched 1-2 years ago due to the change in salary cap. But to take a lower amount than one should get because the franchise you're attached to signs ridiculous contracts with other players (Gomez and trading for Kaberle), that's Bergevin's problem.

I hate to say it, but Subban is worth 5m/year. If reports coming out saying he's being offered 3m/year are true, then why not ask for a trade. A team out there will pay.


Some teams have a 'bridge' contrace philosophy, and some don't. Subban wants to play for a team that doesn't.

[ericdaoust]

Subban and his agent are probably thinking "this isn't our problem".

This is part of what I've been covering in my Capped articles. Someone has to pay for the drop in the cap and the free buy-outs won't cover everything. Players will try to make sure it falls on someone else's back.

[Bnhershy]

What has Subban accomplished relative to his peers that makes him worth 5+ mill?

Doughty was a norris finalist and olympic gold medal winner, 7
Karlsson won the norris, 6.5
Myers won the calder, 5.5

In no way does he have the credentials to command that kind of salary on his 2nd contract!

He's definitely more in the range of:

Carlson, 4
Hedman, 4
Staal, 4
Del Zotto, 2.5

You could make an argument that his value is higher than the above guys so lets say 4-4.5.

But to go out and publicly say you're worth more than 5 mill and refuse to negotiate like the rest of the core of your team (Price Gorges Pacio) is downright greedy.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE PK. But if this is how the negotiation is going to go, making a good trade is a logical solution. Unfortunately there isn't a young stud Dman available out there so a young stud forward will have to do.

[27Blue]

unfortunately for the habs, if subban pulls a turris, the habs will be forced to deal him and in these kind of situations, the team rarely gets full value. hopefully the two sides can come to an agreement, because if they don't i think the habs will most definitely come out on the shorter end of the stick.

[MXHockey]

What has Subban accomplished relative to his peers that makes him worth 5+ mill?

Doughty was a norris finalist and olympic gold medal winner, 7
Karlsson won the norris, 6.5
Myers won the calder, 5.5

In no way does he have the credentials to command that kind of salary on his 2nd contract!

He's definitely more in the range of:

Carlson, 4
Hedman, 4
Staal, 4
Del Zotto, 2.5

You could make an argument that his value is higher than the above guys so lets say 4-4.5.

But to go out and publicly say you're worth more than 5 mill and refuse to negotiate like the rest of the core of your team (Price Gorges Pacio) is downright greedy.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE PK. But if this is how the negotiation is going to go, making a good trade is a logical solution. Unfortunately there isn't a young stud Dman available out there so a young stud forward will have to do.

He's accomplished more than Carlson and Hedman, in a shorter time, and is more valuable to his team than Carlson and Hedman are to their clubs.

Myers won a Calder, but has been average since, and that comparable works in PK's favour.

Karlsson and Doughty, agreed they are worth more, and get more than 5m/year. Karlsson could have held out for more than 6.5m/year if he wanted, and let's be honest Doughty had to hold out to get his contract.

NYR got a great deal for MDZ, he could have got a bigger contract IMO.


It pains me to argue in his favour, as I'm not a big PK fan. I would be surprised if this settles out at any less than 4.75m/year.

[Bnhershy]

He's accomplished more than Carlson and Hedman, in a shorter time, and is more valuable to his team than Carlson and Hedman are to their clubs.

Myers won a Calder, but has been average since, and that comparable works in PK's favour.

Karlsson and Doughty, agreed they are worth more, and get more than 5m/year. Karlsson could have held out for more than 6.5m/year if he wanted, and let's be honest Doughty had to hold out to get his contract.

NYR got a great deal for MDZ, he could have got a bigger contract IMO.


It pains me to argue in his favour, as I'm not a big PK fan. I would be surprised if this settles out at any less than 4.75m/year.

Myers has been average since but he signed the contract when he was elite. You can't say "I'm better than Gomez so I should be making 8 million a year"

And as much as I love Subban, he's only the 3rd most important Dman on the team IMO with regards to giving the team a chance to win. (behind Gorges and Markov)

[Luffy D Monkey]

Get rid of him. If he loves it so much in Montreal, take a pay cut. Subban deserves 4 million a year no more. There are a ton of better guys getting paid less than that. His attitude stinks too.

[Chuk]

No way he's traded for garbage, not by Bergevin, and even if he has a bout of insanity the guys surrounding him now are all excellent judges of talent, they all know what they'd be giving up in Subban.

I would only see this happen if an elite winger comes back, like a Corey Perry (trade and sign). The Oilers could be be a good fit too with their glut of wingers.

This is exactly what PK and his agent want to see. I would imagine that they expect that all habs fans think the same way.

You are comparing a 23 year old relatively unproven, defenseman, with an already inflated ego and self-worth to a Stanley cup winning, gold medal winning, Rocket Richard and ART Ross winner as a comparable value. Which is quite funny because Perry's contract was a 5.325 cap hit.

No one can know absolutely what he will evolve into but anyone can see what he has done. Doughty's contract was signed under the old CBA and I am quite confident Doughty was more highly touted than Subban. It seems to me that PKs biggest fan is PK.

PK is much more comparable to MDZ or Kulikov, wjho have both signed bridge contracts at realistic values.

I hope Montreal succumbs to the pressure and signs a big, bloated, unmanageable contract and that PKs ego is more dominant than his play on the ice. It would be a good lesson for GMs.

If you want him to sign a realistic deal stop with the ridiculous comparisons.

[MXHockey]

Myers has been average since but he signed the contract when he was elite. You can't say "I'm better than Gomez so I should be making 8 million a year"

And as much as I love Subban, he's only the 3rd most important Dman on the team IMO with regards to giving the team a chance to win. (behind Gorges and Markov)

Comparing Gomez's decline to where Myers is at isn't a great comparison when it comes to this discussion. Gomez has been awful for two years, and the team wisely got rid of him.

Myers signed his contract at a high point and still brings substantial value to his team. Subban brings equivalent or even more value to the Habs. If given the choice, my guess is more teams would pick Subban over Myers, or it would be a wash. Like I said earlier, the Myers comparison works in PK's favour.

Should Eberle/Hall get a lesser contract because they didn't win a Calder when they re-sign as RFAs. Landeskog won a Calder, but will get less money than RNH when their entry level deals are done, guaranteed. Putting a ton of investment into a Calder winner can work against a team.


Gorges is very important to the team, but has a different role, and bringing "no-knee" Markov into this debate, yikes. This is about securing a young franchise player going forward for the next 5-10 years, not about comparing him to Markov, who he will surpass very soon (like next week when Markov gets hurt, again).

[Luffy D Monkey]

Subban will never be as good as Markov, you're dreaming.

He's already known as a locker room cancer. He's not a franchise player.

I would compare him to Dion Phaneuf, if anybody.