Trade Tactics...

[blayze]

I make very few trades in my leagues... just like an NHL GM, I make one maybe two trades per year. Very, very shrewd.

My #1 advice is use the following line:
I am interested in ______. What would you want for him?

The response will tell you whether you have any chance to pull off a trade with the manager of whether he is unreasonable.
It's a very quick, easy way to assess a prospective trading-GM.
Also, and this is critical... if you want to make a trade with another team to get his player... you have to let him pick a player from your team.

The biggest mistake I see is people straight-up making a proposal:
I'll give you Filppula & Simmonds for Scott Hartnell.
No, no, no. That's already being bossy and telling the guy what you think is fair.
Nobody is going to take your first offer.
AND even if it IS fair, they will think it's a low-ball offer.
So, this tact damages your own goods or sours the other guy.

I do realize some people use the Yahoo! trade function where you have to click players - but if that's the case, I just do this:
Seguin
for
Lebda

And I include a note: "This isn't a real trade offer... but I am interested in Seguin. Do I have anybody that interests you? If yes, send me back an offer".

The guy will either reply with a trade offer or just say NO.

Easy peasy.

This is one of those rare situations where I completely disagree with you. I think that's a horrible negotiation tactic, and I practically negotiate for a living.

Negotiation 101 - always be the one to drop the initial anchor because if there's a deal to be done, the final result will most likely gravitate closer to where the anchor was first dropped since it forms the starting point for discussions. ALWAYS be the one to make the first offer - the key is that the offer is compelling to him (ie: addresses his team's needs) and obviously credible (ie: not insulting). Anytime someone has to ask me "who do you want", I almost know instantly that I'm going to be able to get the better of that person.

Also, I find it kind of insulting and lazy to just go to a guy and ask "I want Malkin, who do you want?". YOU'RE the one interested in HIS player... so it's on you to do the research and make him an enticing offer. Can you imagine Stevie Y calling up Mike Gillis and saying "Hey Mike, I really want Luongo, what would it take?". It reeks of desperation and shows that you've put no thought or work into it.

[havanablast21]

Always consider the potential value of additional throw In's. Always try to make any deal a multi-player deal and having more than 1 potential offer on the table can create a perfect timing scenario out of thin air.

In an effort to get Halak, I researched my opposing GM's team and realized who he didn't value on his roster, just before stating keepers. In this case, it was Denis Wideman following his trade to Calgary. He was eager to strip his team down so that he wasn't dumping quality or marginally quality players. Just when the deal was nearly done, I thought...who could I flip to maybe get "Marginally Better".

I told the other GM...Hey...I'll send you the hyped young D, McBain (who really had done nothing of fantasy significance) for Wideman who I know you're bitter about since he was traded from Washington. He agreed not thinking much of it.

At the same time, I was in talks with another GM who I know was thin on Defence. As soon as the deal was posted, he asked if I'd be interested in moving Wideman.

(Now what I got for him was rediculous but...) I tested how badly he wanted Wideman (him being a Calgary fan helped) and ended up getting a 1st round pick.

2 months later I was able to parlay that 1st round pick into Nail Yakupov.

Essentially...Nail Yakupov was a throw in on a deal that netted me Halak, a much needed tender for my squad.

It can get crazy, but having mutiple trade talks at once, along with always asking for those little add ins could pay huge dividends down the road.

[havanablast21]

I"ll qualify my last statement by admitting that I am...by FAR...the most active GM in my league. So I usually have a pretty good idea who the untouchables are and who's likely to be moved on any given roster. If you put the time in...you'll know more...and the more you know...the more likely you are to be able to pull off these unlikely deals.

(Trading for Waiver picks...when waivers are limited is an interesting tactic that I've mastered as well). But I'll save that for another day.

[wendelclark17]

I often will try and put myself in the others guys shoes and think what he would probably accept that i would also be willing to part with. Then I whittle it down a little so I have room to move before sending an offer, it shows I've thought about it and I'm not just trying to rip him off.

On the other hand I often send out feelers to see if players I want are on the market, the odd email asking if a GM is even willing to talk about trading a given player can prove fruitful. Not necessarily a "who do you want for Stamkos?", but rather "is Stamkos on the market at all?" I find you will often get a more positive response.

[Pengwin7]

This is one of those rare situations where I completely disagree with you. I think that's a horrible negotiation tactic, and I practically negotiate for a living.

Negotiation 101 - always be the one to drop the initial anchor because if there's a deal to be done, the final result will most likely gravitate closer to where the anchor was first dropped since it forms the starting point for discussions. ALWAYS be the one to make the first offer - the key is that the offer is compelling to him (ie: addresses his team's needs) and obviously credible (ie: not insulting). Anytime someone has to ask me "who do you want", I almost know instantly that I'm going to be able to get the better of that person.

Also, I find it kind of insulting and lazy to just go to a guy and ask "I want Malkin, who do you want?". YOU'RE the one interested in HIS player... so it's on you to do the research and make him an enticing offer. Can you imagine Stevie Y calling up Mike Gillis and saying "Hey Mike, I really want Luongo, what would it take?". It reeks of desperation and shows that you've put no thought or work into it.

I also disagree with everything you have written.
But since you do this for a living... I'll let you take control of this thread, boss.

[blayze]

I also disagree with everything you have written.
But since you do this for a living... I'll let you take control of this thread, boss.

Despite my strong feelings about how to approach trades, there's no right or wrong answers here, what works for some may not work for others - depends on your type of personality too.

[Pengwin7]

Despite my strong feelings about how to approach trades, there's no right or wrong answers here, what works for some may not work for others - depends on your type of personality too.

I thought you said it was a "horrible negotiating tactic".
If there's "no right or wrong"... how can my approach be "horrible"?

Sorry to say this... but you are being a bit of a douche.

[blayze]

I thought you said it was a "horrible negotiating tactic".
If there's "no right or wrong"... how can my approach be "horrible"?

Sorry to say this... but you are being a bit of a douche.

Just because it's my opinion that it's a horrible tactic doesn't make it right or wrong. This isn't a factual kind of discussion.

[havanablast21]

Also, I find it kind of insulting and lazy to just go to a guy and ask "I want Malkin, who do you want?". YOU'RE the one interested in HIS player... so it's on you to do the research and make him an enticing offer. ... It reeks of desperation and shows that you've put no thought or work into it.

I couldn't agree with this statement more. If someone wants my player, they had better bait the hook...or else I'll tell them to take a hike. By asking me to make him an offer for a player he wants...he's essentially asking me to show my cards in a hand of Hold'm before the flop.

Make a decent offer...maybe not your best...but close to it. You can always adjust by adding players in, rather than uping your offer 1 way.

[Pengwin7]

I couldn't agree with this statement more. If someone wants my player, they had better bait the hook...or else I'll tell them to take a hike. By asking me to make him an offer for a player he wants...he's essentially asking me to show my cards in a hand of Hold'm before the flop.

Make a decent offer...maybe not your best...but close to it. You can always adjust by adding players in, rather than uping your offer 1 way.

EXACTLY.
But which side of the coin are you looking at this from?

[havanablast21]

I suppose, at the end of the day, your tactic's success depends primarily on the person you're attempting to dance with and what their needs are at any given time.

So really...no tactic can be Horrible...if it gets you what you want!

[One87]

I've seen both Pengwin's and Blayze's tactic work. It depends on your demeanor as well as the other GM's on how you can approach or set the tone. If you're inquiring you should have a loose proposal and a loose counter ready.

[fantasyhockeygeek]

I find it lazy when someone approaches me and says "I want Player X what would it take to get him?". You're the one who wants him, you tell me what you'd offer.

As of yet, I have no motivation to make a deal. Usually people approach you about your stud players.

I think it's much more sensible to approach someone and say "Hey, I'm thinking about making you an offer for Player X, and it would really help me out in pulling together something compelling for you if you'd give me an idea of where you'd like to improve your roster in terms of positions, categories, needs, whatever -- with a better understanding of what you're after I think I'll be able to make you a better offer."

That's reasonable to me. But "I want Malkin, what does it take" leaves me responding with "making my team better".

I make a lot of trades. I find most GMs focus on optimizing player value; that's not my approach. I'm a "set the strategy and move pieces accordingly" kind of guy. I'm happy to "lose" deals if it makes my team better, and it's possible to do that a lot more of the time than people realize.

[fulcrum]

I find it lazy when someone approaches me and says "I want Player X what would it take to get him?". You're the one who wants him, you tell me what you'd offer.

I totally agree with this. If I want someone from another team, I make sure I spend some time on it and look at his situation and see what he needs. This is invaluable in trading and it makes you much more approachable for the next deal. They know you spend time on them and aren't just killing time. Nothing frustrates me more than overly shrewd negotiating and someone that always wants you to the spend the time to put a deal together for him. I don't typically deal with these guys Unless I have no choice.

Credibility with your trades is the most important thing you can do. If you go for the homerun on every deal, pretty soon nobody will trade with you.

Oh, and I firmly believe you HAVE to lose deals once in a while. Whether its in one of the methods above or just because you had to have someone due to injuries or due to an all in play to win the league.

[havanablast21]

[QUOTE=fantasyhockeygeek;1054755] "Hey, I'm thinking about making you an offer for Player X, and it would really help me out in pulling together something compelling for you if you'd give me an idea of where you'd like to improve your roster in terms of positions, categories, needs, whatever -- with a better understanding of what you're after I think I'll be able to make you a better offer."

That's reasonable to me. QUOTE]

I agree. In this case, you're tipping your hand to show your interest and instead of asking your opposing GM to make the deal for you...You're showing interest in what he needs/wants so that you can make an informed and significant offer. Well put!