Kovalchuk staying in KHL...

[mister_mcgoo]

im not raving at all im just not buying the idea that the khl is any less self serving than the nhl is that somehow what they are doing is because of some noble love of the game and the fans

I never once said that, you're putting words in my mouth...what I said was "I think it should be up to the player which contract he honors for the season if either of his leagues abandon him". That's pretty bipartisan IMO

[lucifer316]

I never once said that, you're putting words in my mouth...what I said was "I think it should be up to the player which contract he honors for the season if either of his leagues abandon him". That's pretty bipartisan IMO

you also said you were on the side of the khl if i remember correctly didnt you

the khl is on the khls side they arent on the players side or the fans side which is where i assume you are

these players signed contracts in the nhl with full knowledge of what was going to happen during those contracts (the last lockout and what happened to existing contracts didnt happen so long ago that any of them would forget)

for them to act shocked now as to how this all played out seems curious at best

i imagine based on your statements that you find it pretty reprehensible that the teams allegedly signed contracts in good faith with the players and then decided to go about attempting to change them after the fact in essence refusing to honor the contracts they signed

if thats the case i dont see why then you would think its ok for the players to refuse to honor the contracts they signed

doing so they lose the moral high ground they took when they decided to take a stand attempting to prevent the league from not honoring the deals

i just dont think you respond to a lack of honor by trading in your own honor which is why i think those players should come back and play in the nhl like they agreed to do

they didnt agree to play in the khl past the lockout and nothing that has happened should change their ability to do so

[mister_mcgoo]

imagine based on your statements that you find it pretty reprehensible that the teams allegedly signed contracts in good faith with the players and then decided to go about attempting to change them after the fact in essence refusing to honor the contracts they signed

if thats the case i dont see why then you would think its ok for the players to refuse to honor the contracts they signed

actually no its real ****ing simple...if i'm your landlord and you sign a 2 year lease with me, you're definitely on the hook for 2 years according to the terms as they were laid out in the lease. But how would it strike you if after one year I came to you and said 'sorry buddy, this agreement just isn't working for me anymore...so that heat that used to be included in your rent, I'm just not gonna honor that anymore because I'm a greedy dickhead who thinks the rules don't apply to me'. What would you say? You don't think you'd have every right to tell me where to stick it?

I think its essential to honor contracts, I think for better or worse if you agree to do something (whether you shake a man's hand on it or put it in writing) that you stand behind your word and follow thru with it according to the terms of the agreement. But it does not follow from that that its OK for the other party to change the rules halfway thru the game, that's the kinda shit credit card companies and banks are famous for and **** EVERY single thing about that. If the other party is not willing to honor the terms of the agreement that they too agreed to then that contract has zero value.

[lucifer316]

actually no its real ****ing simple...if i'm your landlord and you sign a 2 year lease with me, you're definitely on the hook for 2 years according to the terms as they were laid out in the lease. But how would it strike you if after one year I came to you and said 'sorry buddy, this agreement just isn't working for me anymore...so that heat that used to be included in your rent, I'm just not gonna honor that anymore because I'm a greedy dickhead who thinks the rules don't apply to me'. What would you say? You don't think you'd have every right to tell me where to stick it?

dont understand why you feel the need to get upset and curse at me i didnt make the rules

and the analogy doesnt work because you arent comparing like things

collective bargaining doesnt work the same way even though the players have individual contracts the rules that all of it operates under can be changed when both parties decide to change it thats what is happening here

so no its not real simple

I think its essential to honor contracts, I think for better or worse if you agree to do something (whether you shake a man's hand on it or put it in writing) that you stand behind your word and follow thru with it according to the terms of the agreement. But it does not follow from that that its OK for the other party to change the rules halfway thru the game, that's the kinda shit credit card companies and banks are famous for and **** EVERY single thing about that. If the other party is not willing to honor the terms of the agreement that they too agreed to then that contract has zero value.

both parties are changing the rules thats what the cba is its not a unilateral change decided upon by one party it is something both parties decide hence the lockout

if the league was just allowed to change the rules as you suggest there would have been no lockout they would have imposed their initial offer and that would have been the end of it

the fact that it took as long as it did is because one side doesnt get to decide

[loco man]

Is there ANY chance that this is a secret plan to get out from under Kovy's contract, and Kovy is happy to oblige? Hear me out..

Going back to the ridiculous 100 M signing, it was painfully obvious that Lou hated this deal and that his hand was forced in making it.

Flash forward to today and the new reality of a 64 M cap. Kovy's great, but given the choice of having Kovy at 9 M for 14 more years or getting out from his contract, I'd think they want option B.

From Kovy's end, the KHL would pay him the exact contract and he gets to play at home.

Everybody wins.

I can't see it, but I am not so sure the Devils brass are too panicked that Kovy may void his deal. They are probably pulling for it.

[lucifer316]

i honestly dont think its anything other than him being payed to play in their all star game

there were rumors that ovechkin kovalchuk malkin and i think datsyuk all met and had discussions about what they would do if the cba look more like the last one (24% rollback precipitious drop in payroll ranges etc) however since the cba looked more like the one fehr promised them than the last one they decided they would come back

kovalchuk is just using the fact that it hasnt been ratified yet (and i wonder if the pa isnt dragging their feet on this on purpose they got the second vote on getting rid of the union pretty quick and from what i understand the vote will be handled electronically) in order to stick around and play in the all star game probably pick up some extra money and good will from the fans at home

he is coming back

[letangerang58]

after all is said and done, he'll be back. he probably really wants to play in the KHL all star game. but he won't risk a IIHF ban from the Olympics. especially since they're in his home country.

if he stays, i'm pretty cooked for this season at least. as are the Devils. gotta wonder when they start worrying about that pick they have to forfeit. no clue why they didn't give it up last draft.

Yea, if he stays my keeper team isn't looking so hot all of a sudden... not that it was looking that hot in the first place... just a little lukewarm. Then if I lose Getzlaf to Free Agency then I'm really f***ed.

I agree that it would be nice to see Kovy stick one to the NHL but it seems a bit hippocratic for the players to say that they want the NHL to honor the contracts they sign and then have certain players decide that they don't want to honor their contracts.

[mister_mcgoo]

dont understand why you feel the need to get upset and curse at me i didnt make the rules

and the analogy doesnt work because you arent comparing like things

collective bargaining doesnt work the same way even though the players have individual contracts the rules that all of it operates under can be changed when both parties decide to change it thats what is happening here

so no its not real simple


both parties are changing the rules thats what the cba is its not a unilateral change decided upon by one party it is something both parties decide hence the lockout

if the league was just allowed to change the rules as you suggest there would have been no lockout they would have imposed their initial offer and that would have been the end of it

the fact that it took as long as it did is because one side doesnt get to decide

Wasn't cursing you dude, cursing the way it played out with the league and the NHLPA
I understand the nature of CBA and recognize my analogy was imperfect, but you can't tell me the players wouldn't have happily continued on with the same basis as the previous CBA with a few minor changes. This lockout was heavily driven by ONE side holding the other side hostage. If you aren't able to recognize that then you're naive.

[lucifer316]

Wasn't cursing you dude, cursing the way it played out with the league and the NHLPA
I understand the nature of CBA and recognize my analogy was imperfect, but you can't tell me the players wouldn't have happily continued on with the same basis as the previous CBA with a few minor changes. This lockout was heavily driven by ONE side holding the other side hostage. If you aren't able to recognize that then you're naive.

of course the players would have happily continued with the previous cba just like they would have continued with the one prior to that if given the choice

but the one thing the players failed to do in the last cba and continued it in this one is to meaningfully address revenue sharing in the league and there will be another lockout in 8 years because the inequities in the league arent going away if the league revenue grows again

there was a nice article might have been mirtle about how the cap will be over $80m and floor over $60m at the end of the new cba with i think stalled growth next season and 5% growth average each season after that

if that happens we will still see many teams 'losing' money and the league will come after the players for more

look i cant stand the nhl side in any of this these slimy billionaires had no problem taking expansion fees from other slimy billionaires but now that these teams are bleeding they expect the players to carry the freight its disgusting

but the players pick the wrong hills to die on

revenue sharing should have been higher

they never should have backed off their assertion that other team controlable costs be capped as well like gm and coach salaries

they would never under any circumstance insist that the league be contracted

so yes the league is to blame for nearly all of the mess that we find ourselves in every time a cba comes around

however part of the reason this dance will continue forever is because the players also refuse to make the hard decisions necessary to make the league healthy and the league will never do them unless they are forced to do them

we go through this mess every few years because both sides nibble around the edges of the problem instead of actually fixing it and both sides are to blame for that

at the end of the day though it doesnt matter if this was largely driven by one side or not (and you are correct in that assesment) the fact that both sides agree to the changes means that the players are obliged to continue to fulfill those contracts both by law and by honor

[Ross The Boss Palmer]

Is there ANY chance that this is a secret plan to get out from under Kovy's contract, and Kovy is happy to oblige? Hear me out..

Going back to the ridiculous 100 M signing, it was painfully obvious that Lou hated this deal and that his hand was forced in making it.

Flash forward to today and the new reality of a 64 M cap. Kovy's great, but given the choice of having Kovy at 9 M for 14 more years or getting out from his contract, I'd think they want option B.

From Kovy's end, the KHL would pay him the exact contract and he gets to play at home.

Everybody wins.

I can't see it, but I am not so sure the Devils brass are too panicked that Kovy may void his deal. They are probably pulling for it.

This would open up the door for anyone to leave for the KHL, not going to happen, and no, not everyone wins. The NHL and the NHLPA would both lose at this stage of the game.

[Carcillo]

Is there ANY chance that this is a secret plan to get out from under Kovy's contract, and Kovy is happy to oblige? Hear me out..

Going back to the ridiculous 100 M signing, it was painfully obvious that Lou hated this deal and that his hand was forced in making it.

Flash forward to today and the new reality of a 64 M cap. Kovy's great, but given the choice of having Kovy at 9 M for 14 more years or getting out from his contract, I'd think they want option B.

From Kovy's end, the KHL would pay him the exact contract and he gets to play at home.

Everybody wins.

I can't see it, but I am not so sure the Devils brass are too panicked that Kovy may void his deal. They are probably pulling for it.

The chances of Devils wanting to get rid of their best player on a cap friendly deal are 0%.

The reality of a 64M cap means absolutely nothing. The cap was lower when they signed Kovy to that deal and the cap hit is very cap friendly.

[loco man]

The chances of Devils wanting to get rid of their best player on a cap friendly deal are 0%.

The reality of a 64M cap means absolutely nothing. The cap was lower when they signed Kovy to that deal and the cap hit is very cap friendly.

I don't know man. Things changed pretty dramatically when Kovy just announced that his preference is to stay in the KHL. Regardless of what happens now, he has tipped his hat and offered a big "F.U!" to his team mates, the NJ fans, the owner who ponied up 100 million to sign him.

What a slap in the face. Not sure how they even WANT him back after letting it be known than he would have absolutely NO PROBLEM abandoning his teammates (knowing full well without him they are jiggered), his owner and the fans. If only he didn't have that pesky contract. Oh and its just for one season to collect the 30 Million offered by Putin, but then I'll be back. Sorry, fellas. Good luck!

Brutal brutal brutal. You are telling me that the Devils brass are not thinking "F him. Let him void his deal and let's retool, boys. Lots we can do with that 89 mill"

They gotta be!

BTW, not that I can begrudge him - there is an argument that all bets were off when the NHL locked out the players and it would be hard to turn down 30 Million to play at home, not to mention the intense pressure he must be under from the motherland. My point is just that his relationship with NJ can only be really damaged by these comments, and I can see all members of Devils management wondering why the hell they signed this jackass

[Carcillo]

Brutal brutal brutal. You are telling me that the Devils brass are not thinking "F him. Let him void his deal and let's retool, boys."

They gotta be

That's exactly what I'm saying. They're going to be happy to get Kovy back in New Jersey - whenever it happens.

[metaldude26]

Kovalchuk's cap hit is actually very reasonable but for a small market team like New Jersey with possible ownership issues voiding that deal would be huge. You are talking about not having to pay over $10 million every year for the next five years plus another $11 million this year (although with the lockout killing half the season half the contract is already killed.) That's tangible.

And I realize that the New Jersey ownership situation has technically been settled but with these guys it never seems to really be settled.

I don't think there's a chance in hell the Devils would consider using one of the amnesty buyouts on Kovalchuk but I do think they'd give serious consideration to letting him walk if it voided their salary commitment. I mean, the Devils already got what they wanted out of Kovalchuk, they got to be a contender for a year and went all the way to the Final. I think it makes sense to let him go if possible.

[loco man]

That's exactly what I'm saying. They're going to be happy to get Kovy back in New Jersey - whenever it happens.

If he voids the deal he aint comin back