Subban vs Pietrangelo

[Sharabhi]

Any chance you could make a 2-for-1 trade somehwere to get you out of this dilemma? I'd hate to lose any of those players. I think you have to keep Subban if you need PIM badly - there aren't many players out there who will get you that many PIM and post healthy numbers in every other category as well. Can you package Pietrangely and Sharp/Benn (or another forward) for an elite forward? I'm sure someone would love to acquire Pietrangelo...

Yeah, I've been working on getting a pick for Pietrangelo now...that might be my best option.

Good idea tho...I'll see if I can package Sharp and Pietrangelo for an elite.

[robmyatt]

I personally don't see it as close, given how Pietrangelo has developed.

SOG - they're pretty much on par
Blocks - roughly on par. Pietrangelo had the slight edge last year.
PPP - I expect Pietrangelo to beat out Subban consistently in this category.
PIM - the only real advantage Subban has.

Point upside - Definitely going with Pietrangelo. Not a knock on Subban, I think he'll develop into a good multi-cat player. But Pietrangelo is very quickly becoming elite.

Bang on analysis here.
When SOG & Hits are factored in it is very close. However it's not here so it's AP by a good margin.

[ridinryan44]

Bang on analysis here.
When SOG & Hits are factored in it is very close. However it's not here so it's AP by a good margin.

AP had more SOG than Subban last year anyways. I see them as pretty close this year. Considering his extreme need for PIM I think he'd be foolish to keep Pietrangelo over Subban. Team needs HAVE to be considered. I'll take his 100 more PIM over Pietrangelo's 10 more points.

[lucifer316]

AP had more SOG than Subban last year anyways. I see them as pretty close this year. Considering his extreme need for PIM I think he'd be foolish to keep Pietrangelo over Subban. Team needs HAVE to be considered. I'll take his 100 more PIM over Pietrangelo's 10 more points.

pietrangelo might be a sexier name also so any deal made involving pietrangelo likely get slightly more potentially off setting that 10 points anyway

[horrorfan]

Let's not forget - PIM is one category out of ten in a H2H league - don't overvalue it. You can still win a matchup without it, and wouldn't base a keeper decision around it. It's either close or AP has the edge in the other categories. I'd take the guy who's the more elite offensive player.

[ridinryan44]

PIM is one category out of ten in a H2H league - don't overvalue it. You can still win a matchup without it, and wouldn't base a keeper decision around it. It's either close or AP has the edge in the other categories. I'd take the guy who's the more elite offensive player.

Very true, and if Subban weren't any good in the other categories then I would agree with this argument. Thing is, both dmen should be very close in every cat (edge to pietrangelo in most) but when you have a dman who might be slightly lower in every other category but is your ONLY pim option, then I'd stick with the guy who's gonna give those PIM rather than risk sacrificing that category.

Subban has elite offensive instincts as well, I feel like we are forgetting that.

[horrorfan]

Very true, and if Subban weren't any good in the other categories then I would agree with this argument. Thing is, both dmen should be very close in every cat (edge to pietrangelo in most) but when you have a dman who might be slightly lower in every other category but is your ONLY pim option, then I'd stick with the guy who's gonna give those PIM rather than risk sacrificing that category.

Subban has elite offensive instincts as well, I feel like we are forgetting that.

Agree to disagree. He can get PIM in the draft, so I would rather the guy whom I'm more confident offensively already than someone who c/should get there one day.

[ridinryan44]

Agree to disagree. He can get PIM in the draft, so I would rather the guy whom I'm more confident offensively already than someone who c/should get there one day.

I can do that!

But you can't just go out and get PIM and add them "for free". If you are going to replace someone else on your roster with a PIM guy, you have to consider what you're losing in order to do that. What makes guys like Backes, Hartnell, Byfuglien and Subban so valuable is that they provide you with PIM while also providing top production in every other category. You can't just go out and buy a Zenon Konopka or a Derek Dorsett and not expect to lose out on whichever player you had to pull from your roster in order to get those PIM in.

Now, if you can get a Hartnell or a Backes, then you're laughing. But you can't just say you can go out and "get PIM" without considering what you have to sacrifice in order to get thim in your lineup.

[horrorfan]

I can do that!

But you can't just go out and get PIM and add them "for free". If you are going to replace someone else on your roster with a PIM guy, you have to consider what you're losing in order to do that. What makes guys like Backes, Hartnell, Byfuglien and Subban so valuable is that they provide you with PIM while also providing top production in every other category. You can't just go out and buy a Zenon Konopka or a Derek Dorsett and not expect to lose out on whichever player you had to pull from your roster in order to get those PIM in.

Now, if you can get a Hartnell or a Backes, then you're laughing. But you can't just say you can go out and "get PIM" without considering what you have to sacrifice in order to get thim in your lineup.

I'm well aware of the value of multiple categories contributors. I'm also well aware of the value of such players in H2H vs Roto leagues depending on the settings, and well aware of some other players' shortfalls if you focus solely on PIM. I've used different strategies in H2H leagues so I know there are different ways of being successful.

[bondon]

I'd rather keep Pietrangelo and look to replace PIM in the draft but maybe that's just me.

Don't forget there are a lot of underrated multi-cat guys too, not just the big ticket ones.

Dubinsky, C.Stewart, Clarkson, Downie, N.Foligno, Simmonds, Parenteau...guys that are good enough not to hurt you and provide a ton of PIM.

The trade value argument is a very good one as well.

[ridinryan44]

Damn you all!!!!

[bigbabybuda]

Very true, and if Subban weren't any good in the other categories then I would agree with this argument. Thing is, both dmen should be very close in every cat (edge to pietrangelo in most) but when you have a dman who might be slightly lower in every other category but is your ONLY pim option, then I'd stick with the guy who's gonna give those PIM rather than risk sacrificing that category.

Subban has elite offensive instincts as well, I feel like we are forgetting that.

I agree with this statment... and I'm of the belief that Subban has better offensive insticts and is going to score more points then Piet, over there careers. Just a gut feeling. + Ive seen them play a little more then a little . But could be wrong....

Remember - Last year was a wash year for Subban. His team was brutal and he had to play almost alone on the back end. There was a serious lack of talent on his team and I think there a little better now!

[ridinryan44]

I've been trying not to, but I HAD to revisit this thread . Small sample size, yes - but I don't think it's too hard to argue for subban's offense at this point!

[tgraveline]

Subban has been on fire this year. He's playing for a huge contract after next season (I think he signed a 2-year).

I was all about Pietrangelo before this season, but glad I kept Subban even though I knew the contract status was a mess.

[bigbabybuda]

I've been trying not to, but I HAD to revisit this thread . Small sample size, yes - but I don't think it's too hard to argue for subban's offense at this point!

Thank you sir!