Trying to make room for PKSubban

[LeTrefle]

Sorry for the long post.
Keepers in bold in sig.
Would like to make room to keep Subban. All gms are from Montreal area and owning some (good) Habs is always an asset for future trades.
League going from 11 to 12 teams this year. 2 gm dropped their team. Those two teams will be disband. So, 3 new gms who will pick 18 (3x6) keepers after our 54 (9x6).

First question - If I make no trade before the draft, should I keep Subban over Ryan and go with only 2 forwards? What do you think of Ryan? Other gms in my league don't value him really high.

Second question - This is the top keepers options of the 8 returing gms and potential trade partners. If I try to package Ryan and Yandle to get only a forward back then keep Subban, what kind of forward I could/should target? If you are the gm of one of these teams, would you bite to my proposal?

Washington
Sidney Crosby
Nicklas Backstrom
Henrik Sedin
James Neal
Jonathan Toews
Kris Letang
Erik Karlsson

Detroit
Joe Thornton
Pavel Datsyuk
Jarome Iginla
Marian Hossa
Jamie Benn
Logan Couture
Duncan Keith
Pekka Rinne
Jimmy Howard

Pittsburgh
Patrick Kane
Anze Kopitar
Zach Parise
Tyler Seguin
Shea Weber
Marc-Andre Fleury

Chicago
Alex Ovechkin
Ryan Getzlaf
Henrik Zetterberg
Martin St. Louis
Loui Eriksson
Mark Streit
Henrik Lundqvist

Philadelphia
Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrick Marleau
Ales Hemsky
Patrik Elias
Daniel Sedin
Mike Green
Ryan Suter
Cam Ward

Los Angeles
Alexander Semin
Marian Gaborik
Jason Pominville
Mikko Koivu
Dan Boyle
Tobias Enstrom
Jonathan Quick

Vancouver
John Tavares
Rick Nash
Paul Stastny
Phil Kessel
Matt Duchene
Taylor Hall
Alex Pietrangelo
Ryan Miller

Tampa Bay
Mike Richards
David Krejci
Jeff Skinner
Patrice Bergeron
Jordan Staal
Matt Moulson
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Dany Heatley
Dion Phaneuf
Roberto Luongo

Third question - It's very hard to trade players for draft picks in my league. If I'm lucky, Yandle could fetch me a 4th or 5th round pick. Would you be happy to keep Subban and get an extra 4-5 rounder (50th-ish overall after 72 keepers) for Yandle?

Last question - Should I just forget about Subban and go with my 6 bolded keepers?

Thank you very much.

[Essej]

I like the idea of trading Ryan and Yandle for an upgrade while keeping Subban.

But you say Ryan for one reason or another doesn't carry much value to the other owners.

Anywho I would send that package towards Washington for Backstrom, doubt they would be likely to accept but it would won't hurt and it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility. But in a keep 6 with his team, it should be shot down.

To Detroit for Benn would be a nice deal for you, and seems to be something one would consider.

I like Getzlaf from Chicago and would hope that the owner is down on Getzlaf after the weak year.

From Philly if you like Marleau more than Ryan, I'm sure he would accept the deal of Ryan and Yandle. But I'd be hesitant to give up on Ryan for Marleau.

LA looks like the weakest team, and has the worst keeper options, but with your offer the only player I would want from him would be Quick, and I doubt the LA owner would be willing to move Quick.

If there is a particular player you like from Tampa I'm sure a deal could be made there, outside of Nugent-Hopkins who I'm sure Tampa will want to have moving forward.

In a keep 6 with the teams presented it's going to be tough to get an upgrade on Ryan, but I would defiantly try.

[Shoeless]

Out of curiosity what kind of a pick do you think you can get for Subban?

[arctic_rogue]

In a points only, I wouldn't keep Subban over Yandle, Doughty, or Ryan. If you can flip some players for an elite forward (like previously mentioned), I would hold onto Subban though.

[LeTrefle]

Out of curiosity what kind of a pick do you think you can get for Subban?

Close to nothing.
It really is a disadvantage of losing a roster spot by trading a draft pick.
We dress 14 players/week and we need some bench to cover injuries and/or maximize number of games played.
Usually, we swap picks for a player. I could get an upgrade in picks for Subban, but my benefit will be way less than the gm getting Subban.
I prefer to take the chance to redraft him.

[LeTrefle]

In a points only, I wouldn't keep Subban over Yandle, Doughty, or Ryan. If you can flip some players for an elite forward (like previously mentioned), I would hold onto Subban though.

Will wait for some other opinions, but if the trend is to keep Yandle, Doughty and Ryan over Subban, this is probably what I'll do.

What can I expect for Ryan over a full season? 65 pts? 70? more?
He finished even with Getzlaf at 57 last year, only 3 behind Perry.

[arctic_rogue]

Will wait for some other opinions, but if the trend is to keep Yandle, Doughty and Ryan over Subban, this is probably what I'll do.

What can I expect for Ryan over a full season? 65 pts? 70? more?
He finished even with Getzlaf at 57 last year, only 3 behind Perry.

Over a full season, with PP1 and first line time, I see Ryan as a 75 pt player. Of course there's upside for a little more, but I can't see him go any lower than the 57 he had last year.

[Lint07]

Fellow Trois-Rivières guy, uh? (guessing by your avatar)
If it's the case we might even know each other irl. Anyways, it's always nice to see some Quebecers on these boards!

Cheers!

[jhonny]

The Parise owner only has one Dman worht keeping... Maybe offer him Yandle and Ryan... the problem is that you can only keep 6, and one of Ryan or Yandle probably won't make that cut for his team.

He would get Booby Ryan (72 pts - my prediction for next full season), and Yandle (50 pts - also my prediction).

You'd get Parise (74 - Dobber and many others prediction), though I believe another season away from the knee surgery, a fresh start, and a healthy playmaker or two in Koivu and Suter... yer looking at 84 pts next full season)

IMO, Parise is actually a slight buy low for the first time maybe ever.

I also liked the idea that Essej had in going after Benn before that kid blows up.

If you can't make a trade, what are the chances you could redraft Subban? Seems like your fellow Habs won't trade you for him, but will gobble him up in the draft... I have the same issue in my league but with Flyers players.

Good luck!

[Shoeless]

Let's first assume that a trade isn't in the cards - as I look at the rosters in your league, I think the way to go here is to protect Subban and drop Ryan. A 70 point forward and 50 point D man are pretty equivalent, but most teams are going to be hunting for D guys relatively early in the draft and I think you will easily redraft or replace Ryan in the first round.

Now looking at trading Yandle for a 4th or 5th rounder and keeping Subban, I think that's a small win for you - I don't see the point spread between the two being more than 5 on a full year, so getting a pick will advance you one round in the draft that should compensate you those 5 points and very likely more. I would do it, but not a big deal.

Similarly trading Ryan and Yandle for someone like Parise (I personally think Benn is iffy) will also be a small win. So I think in order of priority I would:

1. go for the pick
2. go after a forward upgrade
3. drop Ryan

[LeTrefle]

The Parise owner only has one Dman worht keeping... Maybe offer him Yandle and Ryan... the problem is that you can only keep 6, and one of Ryan or Yandle probably won't make that cut for his team.

He would get Booby Ryan (72 pts - my prediction for next full season), and Yandle (50 pts - also my prediction).

You'd get Parise (74 - Dobber and many others prediction), though I believe another season away from the knee surgery, a fresh start, and a healthy playmaker or two in Koivu and Suter... yer looking at 84 pts next full season)

IMO, Parise is actually a slight buy low for the first time maybe ever.

I also liked the idea that Essej had in going after Benn before that kid blows up.

If you can't make a trade, what are the chances you could redraft Subban? Seems like your fellow Habs won't trade you for him, but will gobble him up in the draft... I have the same issue in my league but with Flyers players.

Good luck!

Pittsburgh (Parise owner) laughed at me when I said Ryan was a keeper, so no trade with him.

I think neither Ryan nor Subban would be available for me to redraft because of the expansion predraft. 3 teams need to pick 18 players from 2 dissolved teams and the unprotected players. There isn't 12 keepers in the 2 dissolved teams. There are good (really good) players like Giroux, Staal, Spezza, Byfuglien..., but not enough to garner 3 teams.
Usually, about 4 forwards, 1,5 d-men and 0,5 goalie per team are protected.
That means 48 F - Ryan is for sure in the top 48 at 70-ish points.
That means 18 D - If we consider Subban at 45-50, and add the fact the he's a Habs, that put him in that top 18.

[LeTrefle]

Let's first assume that a trade isn't in the cards - as I look at the rosters in your league, I think the way to go here is to protect Subban and drop Ryan. A 70 point forward and 50 point D man are pretty equivalent, but most teams are going to be hunting for D guys relatively early in the draft and I think you will easily redraft or replace Ryan in the first round.

Now looking at trading Yandle for a 4th or 5th rounder and keeping Subban, I think that's a small win for you - I don't see the point spread between the two being more than 5 on a full year, so getting a pick will advance you one round in the draft that should compensate you those 5 points and very likely more. I would do it, but not a big deal.

Similarly trading Ryan and Yandle for someone like Parise (I personally think Benn is iffy) will also be a small win. So I think in order of priority I would:

1. go for the pick
2. go after a forward upgrade
3. drop Ryan

You're right when you say that D-men go early, but not in the 1st round.
Last year, only 3 d-men were draft in the 1st round (Pietrangelo 7th, Lidstrom 9th and JJ 11th). But, 8 D-men were draft in the 2nd round.
Gms want the best available F. It's hard to have a top 4 of 70+ players on your team, so they want to grab that player with the last chance they have to do it.
Last year 1st rouders F were Parise, Skinner, Eriksson, Briere, Koivu, Eberle, Ribeiro and Vanek.
The problem is if I drop Ryan to keep Subban, I only keep 2 forwards (ok, those are Malkin and Stamkos, but it's only 2 spots of 9 active per week). Then I would have to load my team with 55 points F for the 3-4 first rounds.
I would then have close to no power when trading because my 3rd best F would be like their 5th best...
That was the plan when proposing Ryan + Yandle to get a better F : upgrade my 3rd forward.
I think that I will go with your #1 and #2 suggestions, but if not, I will keep Ryan over Subban (even tough I prefer Subban than Ryan) just to make sure I don't fall short of forward power going into the draft.
Sure, you could try to prove me wrong and convice me to do it another way...

[One87]

In a points only, I wouldn't keep Subban over Yandle, Doughty, or Ryan. If you can flip some players for an elite forward (like previously mentioned), I would hold onto Subban though.

I agdee with AR. Out of all the teams' roster, I think Van should be receptive to bolstering his defense.

[LeTrefle]

I agdee with AR. Out of all the teams' roster, I think Van should be receptive to bolstering his defense.

You're right about VAN.
And if a gm should be incline to take Ryan as a keeper, it is VAN.
I would REALLY like to grab Tavares from VAN but I doubt he bites for Ryan + Yandle.
If you're me, wich F from VAN would be a significant upgrade over Ryan?
If you're VAN, wich F would you accept to send me considering his new 6 keepers including Ryan + Yandle?

[Essej]

I highly doubt VAN is willing to move Tavares, and even more so I doubt VAN gives up Tavares for the combo of Ryan and Yandle. If VAN wants a second D, you could probably have your pick of any forward from his team, with the exception of Tavares. Personally if I'm VAN i'm not interest, don't think you make good trade partners.

LA is your best bet I think for a trade partner, but I'm not sure I like any of those guys over Ryan. Gaborik and Semin are always questions mark, but if you want to gamble I'm LA would probably be inclined to give up on one, Semin being more unlikely than Gaborik, but I myself would probably only settle for Gaborik.

Tampa would I'm sure would love Yandle, but again outside of Nugent-Hopkins nothing is too appealing there.

Does Team matter? Do you get points if your team wins? Can you trade your team for another Team? If so you might be able to do something worthwhile in trade, but as a Montreal fan not sure you want to give up Montreal. Or is it all just for show?