So in other words Bettman and the NHL basically f**ked the process by being hard-ass dicks at the start and throwing out unreasonable offers. The goal seemed to be to beat down the union while working out a new deal and the league seemed to feel they had the leverage to do it.
They overplayed their hand and got called.
Gary should get a time machine and go ask Pyrrhus if victory is the same thing as success.
/S
~ I'm not a sociopath, it's just that my magnetic personality keeps throwing off my moral compass.~
Victoria DH
C(3): Athanasiou, Sissons, Zibanejad
LW(3): Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Hymen
RW(3): Bjorkstrand, Smith, Palmieri
F(3): Stepan (C), Bjork (LW), Poehling (C)
D(6): Carlson, Heiskanen, Bogosian, Edler, Hakanpaa, Fleury
G(1): Talbot, Sorokin, Varlamov
Bench: Parise (LW), Motte (C), Richardson (C), Hagg (D)
IR: Wood, Henrique, Johnson, Dvorak
Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril
UHL Pittsburgh Penguins
24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW
W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
27 Man Minor Team
C- Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
RW- Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
D- JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
G- Lehtonen, Rämö
F: Lehterä, Wennberg, McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs
*UHL Champion 2014*
You may not see it that way, but that's pretty much exactly how it works. It's just like investment banker's deal fees... if it's a smaller deal they get a larger % of the deal size as their fee, but once you're in the realm of billion dollar plus deals then that % shrinks fast. In the sports world, the NFL = billion dollar deals, and the NHL = rounding error.
Well that's not how the NHL sees it either. Also if that's how it works and we look this from NHL point of view only (since you said the other leagues were bad comparisons), the players share should fall (since the last CBA the total revenue has grown by over a billion dollars; so players share should also fast fast?).
UHL Pittsburgh Penguins
24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW
W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
27 Man Minor Team
C- Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
RW- Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
D- JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
G- Lehtonen, Rämö
F: Lehterä, Wennberg, McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs
*UHL Champion 2014*
Not always the case but yes, lower revenues should indicate a need for lower share of the pie. Depends on the cost structure. Clearly, arena based costs (if anything they should slightly higher given the sport is played on ice) are similar to NBA. Therefore, when NBA gets 50%, NHL should probably get less. Thats why 50% for NHL players is likely a decent deal for them when compared to NBA.
Let's be real. The majority, or close to it, of players would vote for the current terms that are on the table put forth by the NHL. Most players have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Lets take guys like Konppka or Carkner for example. No chance these guys are buying what the PA is selling. Players will always get moneu no matter what their piece of the pie is.
/S
~ I'm not a sociopath, it's just that my magnetic personality keeps throwing off my moral compass.~
Victoria DH
C(3): Athanasiou, Sissons, Zibanejad
LW(3): Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Hymen
RW(3): Bjorkstrand, Smith, Palmieri
F(3): Stepan (C), Bjork (LW), Poehling (C)
D(6): Carlson, Heiskanen, Bogosian, Edler, Hakanpaa, Fleury
G(1): Talbot, Sorokin, Varlamov
Bench: Parise (LW), Motte (C), Richardson (C), Hagg (D)
IR: Wood, Henrique, Johnson, Dvorak
Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril
Tweet @ Me brah!
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D- Chara, Wideman, Kronwall, Phaneuf
G-Varlamov
Bench: Schenn, MSmith, Yakupov, Hartnell, Gionta, Williams, Carle
Farm: Barkov, Kucherov, Monahan, Trouba, Klimchuk, Poirier, Nieto, Toffoli, Dumba, Gormley, GReinhart, BSmith, Aberg
Proud owner of entire first round in KPL 2015 prospect draft
/S
~ I'm not a sociopath, it's just that my magnetic personality keeps throwing off my moral compass.~
Victoria DH
C(3): Athanasiou, Sissons, Zibanejad
LW(3): Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Hymen
RW(3): Bjorkstrand, Smith, Palmieri
F(3): Stepan (C), Bjork (LW), Poehling (C)
D(6): Carlson, Heiskanen, Bogosian, Edler, Hakanpaa, Fleury
G(1): Talbot, Sorokin, Varlamov
Bench: Parise (LW), Motte (C), Richardson (C), Hagg (D)
IR: Wood, Henrique, Johnson, Dvorak
Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril
Do you honestly think guys with short careers give a **** about how much revenue the PA is getting 8 years from now? I would bet a lot of money that we'd be playing hockey if they took a vote right now. Most of the players are naive and are only listening to their master Donald Fehr anyway.
My sentiments are shared by Brian Kilrea who said almost the exact same thing at a game the other day (sat right in front of him).
I don't honestly think the players care about what the PA gets 8 yrs from now because unless they've been asleep the last 17 years they probably assume there will be another lock-out by then.
Do I think that a lock-out probably could have been avoided if the current league offer had come out in August/September? Yeah, sure. It is actually a pretty balanced approach and is probably a few minor tweaks away from smiles and handshakes.
The thing is it took 4 months to get to this point from the original offer of "here's 43%, go f*ck yourselves". Things have got a little unfriendly incase you hadn't noticed. You ever had an argument with someone when the point stopped being "I'm right." and started being "F*ck you!"? I'm guessing 'give up a paycheck to kick Bettman in the balls' isn't a tough sell to some people in the PA.
/S
~ I'm not a sociopath, it's just that my magnetic personality keeps throwing off my moral compass.~
Victoria DH
C(3): Athanasiou, Sissons, Zibanejad
LW(3): Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Hymen
RW(3): Bjorkstrand, Smith, Palmieri
F(3): Stepan (C), Bjork (LW), Poehling (C)
D(6): Carlson, Heiskanen, Bogosian, Edler, Hakanpaa, Fleury
G(1): Talbot, Sorokin, Varlamov
Bench: Parise (LW), Motte (C), Richardson (C), Hagg (D)
IR: Wood, Henrique, Johnson, Dvorak
Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril
UHL Pittsburgh Penguins
24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW
W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
27 Man Minor Team
C- Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
RW- Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
D- JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
G- Lehtonen, Rämö
F: Lehterä, Wennberg, McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs
*UHL Champion 2014*
The NHL's first offer from July 13th. The 'go eff yourselves' is a paraphrasing and condensing of some of the other terms of the deal.
TSN has a handy lock-out timeline which is as much fun as the free agent frenzy tracker! (in that it doesn't update often, it is never what you'd hoped to see, and it just keeps screwing your fantasy prospects).
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9678
Last edited by Loch; November 19, 2012 at 4:05 PM.
/S
~ I'm not a sociopath, it's just that my magnetic personality keeps throwing off my moral compass.~
Victoria DH
C(3): Athanasiou, Sissons, Zibanejad
LW(3): Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Hymen
RW(3): Bjorkstrand, Smith, Palmieri
F(3): Stepan (C), Bjork (LW), Poehling (C)
D(6): Carlson, Heiskanen, Bogosian, Edler, Hakanpaa, Fleury
G(1): Talbot, Sorokin, Varlamov
Bench: Parise (LW), Motte (C), Richardson (C), Hagg (D)
IR: Wood, Henrique, Johnson, Dvorak
Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril
Alright, I thought the 'go eff yourselves' was because of the %-split (which in NHL's first proposal was the same as in the previous CBA (under which the PA said they'd happily to continue play); just other way round - so if 43% is insulting, the owners were insulted during the duration of last CBA ).
UHL Pittsburgh Penguins
24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, Blks, FOW
W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
27 Man Minor Team
C- Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
RW- Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
D- JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
G- Lehtonen, Rämö
F: Lehterä, Wennberg, McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs
*UHL Champion 2014*
Exactly!! It was VERY similar to the first offers tabled by the NFL and NBA....go figure!?! Anyone with any business acumen knows you NEVER make your first offer your best offer, otherwise you have no where to move...and look unwilling to compromise.
There is a reason two other major leagues started this way, and they both ended with a season. So there is still hope...as Elliot Friedman pointed out, this is eerily similar to the NBA negotiations (which shares similar revenues). Hopefully a 66 game season starting December 16th!! *crosses fingers*
Keeper League #1: Keeper League #2: 12 GM Total Points (Multi-Cat) Keep 10 + 2 Farm 12 GM H2H (Multicat) Keep 12 + 10 Farm C: RNH
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RW: Tarasenko
F: Pacioretty Lucic
D: Karlsson OEL Green
G: Quick Price
F: Draisaitl VatanenC: Backstrom Stamkos Kopitar
LW: Pacioretty Schwartz Palat
RW: Kucherov Hornqvist Nash
D: Klingberg Faulk J.Johnson Streit
G: Bernier Dubnyk Hutchinson
B: Drouin B.Ritchie Jaskins Krejci
Farm: Kuznetsov Domi Jones Ho-Sang Deangelo Hellebyuck